Doug Tjaden Interview P2

We have Doug back for part 2, discussing his forthcoming book “My Ways”. Today’s discussion on will spend more time on answering the “how to?” question.

Doug Tjaden

Background Reading and Listening:

I’ve Come to Give Interview
Currencies Discussion
My Ways Part 1

Interview Questions:

  1. So Doug, today let’s focus on Part 3 of your book, called “The Process”. Walk us through why you broke it up into the following 4 chapters: “Follow the Leader”, “Prepare Yourself”, “Embrace the Great Restoration”, and “Engage Your Community”.

  2. Let’s take a deeper dive on Chapter 12: “Engage Your Community”. What are Community Action Teams? This seems to be language that ties into the Statesman Project. Tell us about that.

  3. In the Storehouse Vision, we speak of the “Storehouse Community”. This is a subset of your local community, and is ultimately when Christian Community expands to include economy, trade, banking, and investment. We speak about it based on what Jesus said: “Where 2 or 3 are gathered… “. This creates a parallel economy rather than a replacement economy. It’s also easy to prototype. Sometimes, I refer to this strategy as “Celtic Evangelism”, which is a “come taste and see the Lord is good” strategy. Could you compare these ideas to what you’ve contemplated in Ch 12?  How does the Christian work together with unbelievers, or even those hostile to the gospel?

  4. How do we prevent or guard against old mindsets and worldliness creeping in? For example, how do we address fear and scarcity based mindsets? Mammon (the insatiable desire to earn money from any and all activities)? Especially as we engage and serve unbelievers in our communities. The human tendency to put ourselves and our own first (sometimes even second and third). How does the chapter “Prepare Yourself” relate to this as well as repentance and transformation?

  5. We talked about the potential for a third book focused on implementation and systems. Might we call that “The Prescription”? How do we further implement/prototype these ideas? What systems and technology are needed? Leadership structures? Checks and balances? Procedures? Rules? What have you contemplated in this regard? Esp. the food supply chain and agricultural lines.

Links to References in Discussion

“My Ways” Interview Doug Tjaden

We welcome back Doug and speak with him about his forthcoming book “My Ways” a guide to implementing biblical economics and sequel to “I Came To Give”.

Doug Tjaden

Background reading and listening:

We interview Doug this morning and catch up with him:

  1. Doug, so God has taken down another road of your journey with Him. Tell us about this past year.
  2. What prompted you to write the second book? Why was it needed? Why is it called “My Ways”?
  3. How do you see Kingdom economics play out in the lead up to Christ’s return?
  4. You lay the book out in 3 sections: Principles, Foundations and Process. Tell us about that.
  5. Why the focus on local economies? Agriculture? How does this tie into the local currencies idea? What will God’s ways look like in terms of food production, processing and distribution in the days ahead?


Doug Tjaden serves as co-leader of the Public Policy Focus Group for the Global Council of Nations / Statesmen Project and is founder of Project Thrive 21, a non-profit dedicated to establishing love for neighbors as the economic foundation of local communities. In early 2021 he released his book, I Came to Give (free copy) – Understanding the Great Reset and the Coming Age of Abundance… Doug is working with others to design and develop a new means of value exchange that is based on God’s principles of cooperation, stewardship, and abundance.

Doug also serves on the leadership council for the New Breed of Business and the Storehouse Network.

I Came to Give (free copy)

Interview – The UK Storehouse Team

The AAA Team

As part of the Seeding Storehouses series we interview the “Burton-on-Trent” UK pioneering team this Wednesday. Also heretofore now known as the “A-Team”. Yes, that’s Antoinette, Alexis and Angela.

From the home of Marmite, we explore “how they got here from there”.

Something is brewing in Burton!

Burton-on-Trent home of Marmite

Each of the A-Team’s backgrounds are unique, but they all have experienced the divine hand of Yeshua over their lives.

Knowing there is something better than the current way of economy and banking systems.

Knowing there must be a radical repentance among God’s people.

Knowing that Jesus is returning to Jerusalem to receive a new breed of believer, led by the Spirit, unified together as one new man – a Church without spot or wrinkle.

And as such the whole world will know. 

The Middle of the Midlands

We hear from each of them their testimonies and find out how they answer the question “why come out of Babylon?” and get their thoughts on the New Breed of Business and the Storehouse Vision…

Alexis on Assignment Sounding the Shofar in the Shetlands

Round Table Discussion – Does God Require a Tithe?

Part of financial reformation is returning to biblical understanding of giving, tithing, offerings, investment for believers under the new covenant.

I’ll share some background to the topic, give my understanding and testimony, then we will open up the discussion to hear everyone’s questions, testimonies and perspectives.

Recently, Creflo Dollar apologized for all his previous teachings on tithing. He literally said “you can throw them out”. He now understands giving by grace, quoting Romans 6:14 “…you are not under the law, but under grace”.. He also said the Lord encountered him one morning and said “giving demonstrates your belief that God will provide for you.” (paraphrase). However, this apparently also included a statement that God doesn’t require a tithe under the new covenant.

You can view Creflo’s apology and understanding here: Creflo Dollar – The Great Misunderstanding

So, here’s the question: Does Creflo’s new perspective proverbially “throw the baby out with the bathwater”? In other words, some do indeed teach that God does not require us to give a tithe or really any particular amount under the new covenant of grace. But does that mean the principle of tithing is no longer valid? Or, alternatively, is it rightfully understood that tithing is really a baseline concept of giving under grace?

Ready? Read.

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.It is by grace we are saved” Ephesians 2:8

“What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?”

Romans 6:1-2

So it is very true we are no longer under the law but grace. But that does not eliminate a heart posture of loving God and loving his law righteousness.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfill them.”Matthew 5:17

“For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Matthew 5:18-19

In fact, Jesus went on to teach in the “sermon on the mount” that righteousness in Him goes beyond the law, with the law as a baseline level or standard.

“For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

Matthew 5:20

What does that mean? If we are no longer under the law, but grace, but do we throw out the 10 commandments? Of course not, for Jesus said:

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment.”

Matthew 5:21

“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Matthew 5:48

Wait. I thought we were under grace, not the law? How can we be perfect? That would mean we wouldn’t sin.

“This is the new covenant I will make with my people on that day, says the LORD: I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”
Hebrews 10:16
It is only by the Holy Spirit within us acting together with us that we can “be perfect”. Not through our flesh. Our flesh will continue to be open to temptation to sin. Which is why we pray “lead me not into temptation, but deliver us from evil”.

Back to Tithing…

So, Is tithing a good thing or not? Does tithing bring a blessing according to Malachi 3 today or not? Does not following it bring a curse?

We will break it down, and take a look at how the “Storehouse Vision” relates to tithing, giving, and investing.

“Bring the whole tithe into the Storehouse, so that there may be food in my house” – Malachi 3:10

Tithing is good for:

  • demonstrating we trust in God as provider
  • bringing food into “God’s House”, which is the body of Christ, the living stones temple
  • helping the poor, widow and the orphan
  • tithing on the tithe (to the regional/state/national/global body – liken to the Levites tithing to the house of Aaron)
  • the only recorded place in the bible where God says to “test Me” with a promise attached of abundant blessings, is in regard to the tithe. Mal 3:10.

Tithing is not good for:

  • perpetuating an old-wine skin, at the expense of the laity (Nicolaitans)
  • operating in a spirit of this World
  • leading in a spirit of Saul
  • manipulating people to give, when ministry leaders fear running out of money
  • attempting to mollify our own financial fears (Pagan notion: “god” won’t provide for me financially unless I offer a sacrifice of money)
  • meeting building projects or budgets that are the vain imaginations of man (good but God)

Tithing is:

  • “on the increase”
  • a tenth
  • separate from offerings
  • to be given to where you receive your covering / are shepherded
  • should not be unto yourself, but “someone greater” (Hebrews 7)

God said in Malachi the people were “robbing him” of tithes and offerings. This implies falling short of a target greater than 10%…

Deep dive reading on reformation in giving: Non-Profit Ministry Bulletin

Round Table Discussion

How to Seed Storehouses (Series)

Storehouse Hub and Spoke Network, Organically Grown by Seeding

Tomorrow we start a series we could call: “How to create a Storehouse”. If you get a chance, read through some of our intro materials here (feedback encouraged so we can improve) :

Because the Storehouse Vision is to create and connect to the Storehouse Network, it is really just part of the administrative, financial, investment backbone or infrastructure of the Church advancing the Kingdom. But, not depending on the financial systems and business practices of this world.

The Storehouse Network is a Fishes and Loaves Network

Storehouses can seed other storehouses to help grow this network. We discuss the problems of local sustainability, USD fund raising dependence, and the power of giving a hand-up instead of a hand-out.

Join us as we hear testimonies, share ideas, and learn together.

A Closing Prayer offered by Kay Cavander…

United by His spirit.
Let’s stand in one accord.
As people who have purposed.
To love and serve the Lord.

As We knit our hearts together
Through the Word and fervent
We can strengthen one another
And show the world we care.

So clothe yourself with Jesus,
Take up your sword and shield,
For our weapons are not carnal,
On this end time batlefield.

For we’re part of God’s great army,
Prepared in these Last Days,
To tell the lost of Jesus,
And set the world ablaze!

Now mighly God we praise you,
For all we’re yet to be,
As united by your Spirit,
We go on to victory!


Round Table Discussion – The “Transfer”
Wealth Transfer Part 2

As background, have a read/ listen to our last discussion two years ago: Wealth Transfer

So, this week my friend Peter Rondeau reached out to me with the passage from Isaiah 23, which is the prophetic judgement of Tyre, but it specifically speaks to (in v18) the message of Tyre’s ill gotten wealth (similar language to the Harlot of Babylon Rev 18) being laid up for God’s redistribution to the righteous. So we got to praying through this scripture and others like it, and started talking more about “What does God mean by this wealth transfer?” this week at the Monday Noonday prayer time.

But everything [Tyre] gets, all the money she takes in, will be turned over to God. It will not be put in banks. Her profits will be put to the use of God-Aware, God-Serving-People, providing plenty of food and the best of clothing.” – Isaiah 23:17-18

There are some other awesome passages in scripture like this, such as:

The wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous” – Prov 13:22

To the person who pleases him, God gives wisdom, knowledge and happiness, but to the sinner he gives the task of gathering and storing up wealth to hand it over to the one who pleases God.” – Ecc 2:26

Whoever increases wealth by taking interest or profit from the poor amasses it for another, who will be kind to the poor.” – Prov 28:8 (thanks to Lucienne who pointed this one out couple years back)

But before we get too excited, start jumping around and giving each other high-fives (I kid you not, I have actually seen mature Christians do this in response to such words and ‘wealth transfer’ scriptures like the Dwarfs in the Hobbit swimming around in the gold treasure horde of Lonely Mountain)

Really, we are seeking the Lord’s face about the right way of understanding and praying into this idea of “the transfer” (as Bob Jones and Rick Joyner referred to it). In fact, its mentioned in our “about” page and purpose statement here in the New Breed of Business:

“The New Breed are inspired business people, gathering together to get the inspiration of God as to how to begin the transfer. The transfer being the transfer of wealth (people and resources) from Babylon (the wicked) into the Kingdom (the righteous – Prov 13:22) related to the end-times harvest (1 billion souls). This inspiration comes from communion with God (Intimacy – Song of Solomon), understanding the knowledge of God (Col 1:10; Hosea 4:6), and receiving the wisdom of God (1 Cor 12:8; Isaiah 11).”

It’s also worth understanding again this slide:

The biblical examples of wealth transfer are always about advancing the Kingdom, and people helping people. It’s never about the pride of life or self-advancement.

Some folk believe in a “prosperity gospel” which gets simplified to partial-truths or falsehoods like: “because I am a Christian, God gives me money and I am always blessed, never defeated” or “money works for me, i don’t work for money” or “i don’t worry about money because i have plenty of money” or “I’m the head and not the tail – God gives me money according to Deut 8:18”. So, those things that glorify the flesh, pride, the self, taking one’s ease, etc. can become sideroads to destruction through delusion and pride. This type of “always blessed” theology (never lack, never struggle) completely misses the commanded suffering Christians must endure in this life.

If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?” – Matt 10:24-26

Let’s study Paul’s passage carefully to the Phillipians:

I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do all this through Him who gives me strength.” – Phillipians 4:11-13

Many have wandered from the faith, and have pierced themselves through with many sorrows” – 1 Tim 6:10

Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.” – James 4:13

Let us remember too King Hezekiah’s folly:

Hezekiah listened to and welcomed [the Bablyonians] and foolishly showed them all his treasure house—the silver and gold and spices and precious oil and his armory and everything that was found in his treasuries.” – 2 Kings 20:13

One of the greatest lessons lies in the Isrealites coming out of Egypt and into the Promised Land. They too received a great wealth transfer when God instructed them to plunder the Egyptians in gold and silver. But to what end? To forge a golden calf and worship it? All the gold and silver couldn’t buy any food in the desert. God said he had to test their hearts:

Let us study Deut 8 again to understand:

… the Lord your God led you all the way in the wilderness these forty years, to humble and test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands. He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord. Your clothes did not wear out and your feet did not swell during these forty years. Know then in your heart that as a man disciplines his son, so the Lord your God disciplines you…

Be careful that you do not forget the Lord your God, failing to observe his commands… Otherwise, when you eat and are satisfied, when you build fine houses and settle down, and when your herds and flocks grow large and your silver and gold increase and all you have is multiplied, then your heart will become proud and you will forget the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery…

He led you through the vast and dreadful wilderness… He brought you water out of hard rock. He gave you manna to eat in the wilderness, something your ancestors had never known, to humble and test you… You may say to yourself, “My power and the strength of my hands have produced this wealth for me.” But remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms his covenant” – Deut 8:2-5; 11-15

The reason for that specific wealth transfer is found when Moses and Aaron asked the people for an offering to build the tabernacle and all of its gold and silver implements the Lord required in his heavenly plans (Exodus 35).

Ultimately, not one from that generation got to carry their gold and silver into the promised land, bar Joshua and Caleb. Only their offspring.

Let us learn of God’s idea of stewardship with integrity, separating our personal affairs from the King’s business…

“Thus says the Lord God of hosts: “Go, proceed to this steward, To Shebna, who is over the house, and say: ‘What have you here, and whom have you here, That you have hewn a sepulcher here, As he who hews himself a sepulcher on high, Who carves a tomb for himself in a rock? He will surely turn violently and toss you like a ball Into a large country; There you shall die, and there your glorious chariots Shall be the shame of your master’s house. So I will drive you out of your office, And from your position he will pull you down. Indeed, the Lord will throw you away violently, O mighty man, And will surely seize you.

Then it shall be in that day, That I will call My servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah; I will clothe him with your robe And strengthen him with your belt; I will commit your responsibility into his hand. He shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem And to the house of Judah. The key of the house of David I will lay on his shoulder; So he shall open, and no one shall shut; And he shall shut, and no one shall open. I will fasten him as a peg in a secure place, And he will become a glorious throne to his father’s house.”
– Isaiah 22:15‭-‬23

“Keep yourselves free from the love of money. Be content with what you have. For He said: “I will never leave you or forsake you” – Hebrews 13:5

These verses well encapsulate the wisdom the Church needs in this hour. We cannot carry the world’s money-driven, capitalistic, materialistic ideals into a life submitted to Christ for service. Only in ‘the way’ can we be like Eliakim – trustworthy with the King’s treasury, resources and people. Being a father to the house of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem – a father to the people of God.

So, Who should we be seeking?

How should we pray for the “wealth transfer”?

How do we avoid the pitfalls of Shebna, Korah, Cain, Baalam?

What does the wealth transfer look like in our day?

If our nation and even the church in our nation is being judged for: greed, mammon idolatry, financial fear, self-preservation, self-interest, pride, self-promotion, self-effort, celebrity, selfish-ambition, vanity – how does this affect the “wealth transfer”? Can it even happen under this blight? Are the heavens brassed over in this regard?

Round Table Discussion –
Provision without Money Part 2

As background, last week’s materials and podcast Part 1:

The Compromising Church… Pergamos … I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.”

Rev 2:12-17

Balaam – a false prophet who sold his services for money

…they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, who loved the wages of wickedness

2 Peter 2:14-15

Nicolaitans – means “conquer the laity”

Instead of Jesus being the head of the church, man is head of this false church with control mechanisms in place to control the laity through a variety of religious means.

“food sacrificed to idols” – spiritually analogous to…

food = provision

sacrificed to idols = idolatry of the provision – ie, mammon

“sexual immorality” – spiritually analogous to being married to wifes who follow false gods, or simply worshiping pagan gods

“to he who overcomes” receives “hidden manna”

Meaning those who come out (repent) from these practices and consecrate themselves (humble themselves), God will provide for them in otherwise imperceptible means (miracles, signs, wonders).

a “new name” on a “white stone”

white represents purity.

name inscribed on a stone – represents a permanency – it is so written

a “new name” is liken to Jacob becoming Israel; Abram becoming Abraham; representing a transformed life…

Combine the two together we get a word picture of repentance, humility, transformation, overcoming, provision from unusual and imperceptible places. Such as water from a rock. Or bread from the sky. Or water into wine. Or a river in the desert. Blooming in the desert.

Round Table Discussion:
Provision without Money

Elisha’s Floating Ax Head

(As background, have a read of the New Breed of Business about page as well as the last discussion we had on “Hybrid Power“)

However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?

Luke 18:8

They could not buy or sell unless they had the mark

Rev 13:17

Man shall not live on bread alone, but by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God

Matt 4:4

Seek first the Kingdom of God, and all these things people worry about (food, clothes, drink) shall be added unto you

Matt 6:33

Hybrid of Ministry and Business

The New Breed of Business reformation can be described both as a hybrid of ministry and business, as well as a hybrid of natural and supernatural power. God sometimes gives me analogies using cars, and a hybrid vehicle has a “combustion engine” aspect (like man’s natural power) plus a “electric power” aspect (like God’s supernatural power or heavenly power).

Porsche 918 RSR Prototype with carbon “Flywheel” electric storage device

Porsche “919 Hybrid” LMP1 Racecar

Let’s take this analogy a step further. This model above is a “919”. 9 Biblically represents the Holy Spirit.

9 Fruits of the Spirit (Gal 5)

Love, patience, kindness, gentleness, meekness, joy, self-control, faithfulness, goodness.

“Against such things there is no law”

These things are released from the inside (the heart), and as we put to work our “natural” efforts and abilities, we are to do so in these Spirits

Good book on this by Bob Jones: Fruits of the Spirit

9 Gifts of the Spirit (1 Cor 12)

Healing, deliverance, prophecy, discernment of spirits, tongues, interpretation of tongues, word of knowledge, wisdom, faith.

All of these carry a “supernatural” power dimension.

So, when looking at business and ministry, we should freely be operating both naturally and supernaturally by the Spirit. In other words, when we do things through natural power (money, efforts) they must be done according to the scripture and according to the fruits. This is similar to the naturally aspirated engine in a hybrid vehicle. But we also need to be trusting in God for the heavenly provision that happens supernaturally (heavenly, angelic). You can’t “buy” with money this power. It’s not “for sale”. Simon the sorcerer tried and was nearly killed (Acts 8). This is similar to the electric power of a hybrid. In the days ahead, we will need both aspects to accomplish the will of God.

In the same way we can pray for someone’s (supernatural) “healing” in the hospital, and also for the doctors’ success (natural), we can pray for and seek natural and supernatural provision as well.

Let’s look at some biblical examples:

People in scripture operating in the natural provision:
Cornelius giving ALMS to the Jews
Boaz blessing the poor, his workers, Ruth and Niomi
Jesus sending forth the adulterous woman and telling her to sin no more
Jesus dining with the disciples
Jesus the carpenter
Israel contributing their silver and gold to the building the tabernacle
Nehemiah leading the wall building and defenses

People in scripture operating in supernatural provision:
Elisha multiplying oil in the pots for the widow
Elisha floating the ax head to recover it for owner
Elijah riding in a chariot of fire
Peter walking on the water
Peter fishing for a 4-drachma coin
Phillip being “translated” to another location
Jesus fed the 5000/4000 miraculously multiplying fish and loaves
Jesus turned water into wine at the wedding
Moses getting water from the rock
Moses parting the red sea

People in modern day operating in supernatural provision:
John G Lake receiving SA entry fee by faith
Heidi Baker seeing food multiply in front of the children when they had no food
Raman Mooi receiving a building and money from Japanese business man without asking (for audio testimony, scroll down to bottom here)
Rob Cassera received a multi-million dollar dinner theater property in Darien, CT for $1
George Muller receiving food and milk for the orphans
Reese Howell praying for the demise of Hitler
$408k mtg settled for $1; $250k mtg eliminated by court

Chandrakaut Shouri

Anyway, all this got stirred up in me again when watching this testimony from 10 Days of Prayer Pentecost: His name is Chandrakaut Shouri and he is from India.

Chandrakaut Shouri

Watch 8 minutes of this clip:

(queued up at 12 min 10 sec – watch through 19m 44 sec). (Watch the whole thing and you will be blessed.)

God sends Chandrakaut and his family into the “jungles” of India into a “dark, remote place”

“We had no finances”
“Lord, what do you want us to do?”
“We had no plans, no projects”

His family rejected him and friends thought he had gone mad
He and his wife had two children at that time
There were no jobs available to them

“Lord help us!”

For four years, all they got was Matt 6:33 “Seek first the Kingdom and do not worry. All will be added unto you” and 4:4 “Man shall not live by bread alone…”

4 years of financial hardship

“Either God did not call us here… or we admit it’s too tough because we can’t take this hardship”

One morning separately, both he and his wife vowed to the Lord, we will stay here where you have called us even if our kids starve.

God then spoke a word: Isaiah 51:22 – and broke off the hardship (having drunk from the cup that makes men stagger).

And ever since that day to this day, they have always had provision and food on the table. He doesn’t know how, but it’s true.

“Why did you make us suffer for such a long time God?”
G: “Right from when you were born, everything reinforced this one thing: ‘without money you cannot survive.’ That had become a very strong chain of bondage in your mind. It took me 4 years to break that”

That was a revelation, and with that revelation came freedom:
“My work is only for the Lord”
“My work is not for sale”
“That was what actually freed me to do what God wants me to do.”

Two Other Examples

More inspiration from our friend Angela Marra about “Listen to the Voice”:

(watch/listen 8 minutes)

And another good related word is about the opposite spirit to “trusting God with all” is a spirit of “self-preservation” sent in by Chareese Whitaker:

Round Table Discussion Topic:
Practical Ways to Come out of “Babylon”, Part 2

Towers in the bible represented pride of man and the “Kingdom of Babylon”

Review last week’s background material and discussion:

We are now seeing more and more the bald-faced evil of Babylon today… Not just the pseudo civil rights of “Choice” of the slaying of innocent children (ancient god Moloch) and the “Pride” of sexual preference (ancient god of Baal), now just straight up sorcery and witchcraft.

Babylon has become a haunt for jackals and demons

Revelation 18:2

straight up sorcery and witchcraft

Google now has their OWN app for that

Round Table Discussion

How do we come out of Babylon practically today? Well first, let’s understand the biblical meaning of Babylon…

What is “Mystery Babylon” in the Bible (Rev 17-18)?

It is described as a metaphorical “city” in those scriptures – “Babylon is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.” (Rev 17:18). A harlot who has enchanted “all the nations of the world” and has committed adultery with “all the Kings and great men of the earth” (Rev 18:3).

There is a tale of two Kingdoms all throughout scripture. The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Babylon.

It started with the difference between Cain and Able (Gen 4). The first city that was “Babylonian” was where the “Tower of Babel” was built in the southern Mesopotamian area of Shinar where leaders like Nimrod wanted “to be like God” and reach the heavens with man’s tower (Gen 10-11). God scuttles man’s plans by confusing their languages, scattering them all throughout the earth.

Then we encounter King Nebuchadnezzar, who was shown by God a dream of a statue. This statue also represents the Kingdom of Babylon all through history. The gold head being Nebuchadnezzar’s kingdom (ancient Iraq), the silver torso Medio/Persia and King Cyrus, the bronze belly the Greeks and Alexander the Great, the iron legs the Roman empire and its various Emperors, and finally the mixed feet and toes of iron and clay being a future Babylonian / Anti-Christ Kingdom. In that same dream we saw the Kingdom of Heaven which was described a rock hewn without hands (God) that grows into a huge mountain (Kingdom of God and its Christ) that smashed the statue – i.e., smashes Babylon.

Another name for the Kingdom of Babylon is the “Spirit of this World” (1 Cor 2:12) and the “Kingdoms of the Earth” that Satan used to tempt Christ in the wilderness taking him to the top of the mountain saying: “you can have all the kingdoms of the world, if you bow down and worship me” (Matt 4:7-8).

OK, so, if God is calling his people to “Come out of Babylon” in Revelation 18, what does that mean practically speaking in the 21st century? This is also echoed in Isaiah 52 (Israelites commanded to come out of Babylon after 70 years of slavery) as well as 2 Cor 6 where Paul showed the Corinthians that they were not to be “partnered with unbelievers”. They were to be consecrated, set apart, a Holy people before God and not partner with the world or the spirit of this age (2 Cor 4:4).

Nebuchadnezzar’s Statue of Gold

10 Practical Ways to Come out of “Babylon”

1. Employment. Who is your current employer and what do they stand for? Profitability and pop culture or Kingdom? Are you Daniel in Babylon, an Israelite who married a Babylonian (see Dimensions of Babylon below), or someone stuck in the middle?

2. Career vs. Calling. The world values career, money, success, saving for a rainy day/retirement, fame, fortune and notoriety. The Lord says “many are called, but few are chosen”. What is your ministry? What is your calling? How does your career line up with that?

3. Income. What are your sources of income? How are they derived? Are you trusting God or in your own abilities to make money? Does God help those who help themselves, or does God help those who help others?

4. Stock Investment. Do the companies you invest in have a Kingdom first motive or profit first motive? Are their stock prices driven by fear and greed, or generosity and blessing? Do those companies glorify God? What does God think of their business practices? Do those companies take advantage of people? Do they exploit the poor? Do they exploit their workers, suppliers, customers?

5. Debt Investment. Are the bonds you invest in adherent to scripture? Do they lend to the poor without interest? Do they lend to brothers and sisters without interest? Do they foreclose or cease assets without consideration of people’s circumstances? Do they leverage companies for greater profits (see pt 4. above)

6. Other types of investments and motives. FOMO? Fear of missing out on big gains? Gold rush? Crypto rush? My neighbor made a ton of money in the stock market and my money was just sitting around earning nothing? Levered real-estate? Slum-lord? Buy and flip?

7. Insurance. Modern insurance charges premiums, invests the proceeds and works claims down to a minimum in order to generate a profits for shareholders. Who is our assurance? What minimum insurance is required by law? Are we over insured? Do we fear financial loss?

8. Repentance of Financial Fear. Listening and acting on the voices that say: “How are you going to pay the bills?”, “How are you going to pay the mortgage?”, “Rent?”, “You need to move out of town because its too expensive to live here.”

9. Debt. Get out of financial institution / bank debt. Mortgages, Credit Cards, Student Loans, Car Loans. All of it. There is no “good debt” when it is owed to a financial institution, as they will not have compassion on you if you cannot repay. They will foreclose or seize any asset you have pledged. If you can’t pay it down, look for a biblical loan to replace it or sell your asset to pay off the debt. The government and the Fed have the power to “bail-in” the banks (such as in Cyprus). They can holding your feet to the fire to call the note in and . They can even commandeer the assets backing a note require immediate payment or liquidation under extraordinary circumstances (such as the S&L crisis in the 1990s).

10. Unlock the investment side of your balance sheet and budget for God’s purposes. Savings, investment, and retirement investment can be redeployed for God’s purposes. Beyond the tithe are offerings. Beyond that is your investments and savings. Are you willing to re-invest in God’s agenda? Lending as investing. The Storehouse Vision. Don’t just let God have say over 10% of your finances, but 100% of them. Invest locally. Invest in Kingdom.


11. Look for opportunities to come off of government assistance (and on to God assistance). Why? Because it may not always be there. And some of those programs incentivize you to earn less rather than more (poverty mentality). Welfare. Food Stamps. Govt health insurance. Social Security. Child care. Etc. Key is being God dependent rather than man dependent or government dependent.

12. Don’t worry about your credit score (Matt 6:25). The credit scoring system is a slavery system designed to turn us into a number (a score), incentivizes more debt, and makes us the best slaves to repay that debt, no matter what life’s circumstances throw at us. It is one of many precursors and conditionings for taking the mark of the beast (can’t buy or sell without submission to a system – Rev 13:6).

Dimensions of Babylon

  • Slavery
    Does my job enslave me, but I feel afraid of losing the income?
    Does my mortgage/rent enslave me to my job?
    Is God calling me to do something else?
    Am I a slave to something other than the Lord?

For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin

Romans 6:7

  • Partnership
    Am I partnered with practices God hates?
    Partnered with someone/a company who worships other gods? Exalts money above God?
    (marriage in the bible is interchangeable with partnership; foreign wives worshipped foreign gods)

Then Shekaniah said to Ezra, “We have been unfaithful to our God by marrying foreign women from the peoples around us. But in spite of this, there is still hope for Israel. Now let us make a covenant before our God to send away all these women and their children, in accordance with the counsel of my lord and of those who fear the commands of our God.

Ezra 10:2-3

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols?

2 Cor 6:14-16

Corporate Aspects to Coming out of Babylon:

  1. Employee – Am I beholden to my job? My salary? Is it my calling? Do I have freedom to be in Christ?
  2. Stock holder – Partnership with a company and its business practices (you share responsibility with that company before God)
  3. Bond holder – Lending at interest to leverage a company and its business practices (another form of partnership)
  4. Supplier / Vender – Am I beholden to my client? Can they pull my strings against my will because of this? How do they effect my financing? Cash-flow? Am I enabling any of my client’s exploitive business practices?
  5. Customer – Buy buying a company’s product or service am I enslaved or addicted to it? Is the product or service biblical sin? (stolen property, prostitution, corruption, stolen IP, organ harvesting) Does the company who made it exploit people, whereby I benefit from that exploitation? (child labor, slavery)

Further Strategies

If you exit from publicly traded stocks, bonds, mutual funds, ETFs AND use the proceeds to pay down your mortgage, you are coming out of Babylon twice!

But Gregg, where do I invest my money then? In God’s Storehouse.