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Discussion: How could God use an alternative form of banking to help solve systemic poverty?

Problem: Today, banks are required by regulation, charter and profit motive to risk-adjust (extreme interest and fees) or deny lending to those who may be the most in need of help.

God said through Moses in Deuteronomy 15:7-8 “If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. Rather be openhanded and freely lend him whatever he needs.”

Solution: How might God desire to dissolve systemic poverty in the context of Christian community through an alternative banking structure? We exchange ideas along these lines. Benevolence as part of investment. Banking that considers and obeys the Word of God.

…there will be no poor among you, since the Lord will most certainly bless you in the land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance to possess, if only you will listen to and obey the voice of the Lord your God”

Deuteronomy 15:4-5

Conceptual model of investment structure:

Neither equity (ownership) or debt (loan), and without traditional recourse provisions. Instead with forgiveness provisions and with voluntary dividends that potentially better meets the biblical standard. We can use this as a discussion piece.

Conceptual model of banking:

Discussion: The “Transfer of Wealth”

Thanks to Merrick Finn last week for bringing this up and reminding me this week…

Back in 2007 in a lunch with Rick Joyner and Bob Jones at the Cracker Barrel somewhere in South Carolina, Bob mentioned to me that a “purpose” of like minded Spirit-led business people gathering together was: “To begin the transfer”.

I was like, what’s that? He went on to explain there is coming a transfer of wealth that will be part of the end-times harvest, as it is promised to God’s people in scripture. I was like oh…

Such scriptures are Proverbs 13:22: “The wealth of the wicked is laid up for the righteous” or similar scriptures like Job 27:16-17.

Of course, I had heard many from the prosperity movement speak of these scriptures, but it never made sense to me as it was being presented as a “God wants you to get rich” scheme.

Here are some scriptural examples of wealth transfer (they are all different types):

  • Abraham receives gifts from Egyptian Pharaoh (Genesis 12)
  • Isaac receives divine increase in the land of the Philistines (Genesis 26)
  • Jacob receives divine increase while working for Laban (Genesis 31)
  • Jacob and his family provided for from Egypt through Joseph (Genesis 41)
  • Israelites plunder the Egyptians before the Exodus (Exodus 3)
  • Solomon received gold from Queen Sheba (1 Kings 10)
  • Remnant of Judah received favor and wealth from Cyrus to rebuild the Temple (Ezra 1)

As a result, here is a quote from newbreed.co/about page I recently added which was essentially a paraphrase of what Bob prophesied that day:

The New Breed are inspired business people, gathering together to get the inspiration of God as to how to begin the transfer. The transfer being the transfer of wealth (people and resources) from Babylon (the wicked) into the Kingdom (the righteous – Prov 13:22) related to the end-times harvest (1 billion souls). This inspiration comes from communion with God (Intimacy – Song of Solomon), understanding the knowledge of God (Col 1:10; Hosea 4:6), and receiving the wisdom of God (1 Cor 12:8; Isaiah 11).

newbreed.co/about

We will discuss what God is saying and doing at this time to each of us. We will inspire each other as to how God has inspired us regarding “the transfer”.

Hybrid of Ministry and Business

Discussion: “Hybrid” of ministry and business together

  • Power from the “natural/earthly” realm + “supernatural/heavenly” realm…
  • Hybrid power – “electric power” – liken to heavenly / supernatural / angelic help, through prayer, fasting, faith
  • Drawing from God’s grace, favor, mercy unlocking resources and relationships here on earth.
  • Drawing from heavenly treasures/resources/body parts.
  • “combustion” engine – natural power in natural gifts, talents, work

Two example dreams I had related to this “heavenly help” of hybrid power:

Dream: Father with a heavenly spreadsheet, diligently tracking all my family’s needs. Set on my college campus.

Dream #2: Learning to fly, defying gravity, teaching others how to do the same, representing defying the “financial” laws of gravity.

J.J. shared with us his “lightning” diagram illustrating an analogy of the process of how lightning strikes with how God works with his people supernaturally.

Proper Positioning Leads To Powerful Promises

Discussion: How does the economy of the “Upside-down Kingdom” work?

Sub-subject: “Hybrid” of ministry and business together

Power from the “natural/earthly” realm + “supernatural/heavenly” realm…

Upside-down Kingdom

  • “The first shall be last and the last shall be first” – Matt. 20:16
  • “Give and it shall be given” – Matt 6:38
  • “Lend to your enemies and do not expect to be repaid” – Matt 6:35
  • “Don’t charge your brother interest” – Deut 23:19
  • “When you give to the needy, do not letting your left hand know what your right hand is doing” Matt 6:3
  • “If anyone wants to sue you for your shirt, give them your cloak too” – Matt 5:40
  • “Do not lord it over them as the gentiles do. Whoever wants to be great among you, must be your servant” – Matt 20:25
  • “Whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for Me will save it” – Luke 9:24
  • “I was hungry and you gave me something to eat” – Matt 25:35
  • “It is more blessed to give than receive” – Acts 20:35
  • “Treasurers in Heaven” Luke 12:33
  • “Since they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection” Luke 14:14
  • “No one who has left home and family for Me and the gospel, will fail to receive a hundred times as much in the present age” – Mark 10:33

Discussion: What’s Wrong with our Financial System?

As Christian business people in the United States, do we still need a revelation of what God is saying the problem is with our banking/financial system, and associated business practices?

While we can always take action during a time of crisis, what if doing so is premature without a REAL revelation of what the problem is in God’s sight?

Perhaps this is part of God’s purpose in our current “shut in” at home, to humble ourselves and ask Him, what must we do to be economically saved and restored?

Discussion: Economic, banking and financial market disruptions

  • Chuck Pierce “We have a golden calf in NY”
  • What’s wrong with the USA’s financial, banking and economic system today?
  • Is it time for a “new breed” of banking/financial system using biblical principles?
  • Unprecedented debt levels
  • Fed Reserves’ actions Sunday March 15th, 2020 unprecedented and what it portends for future failures and bank runs.
  • 0% bank reserve requirement (banks can lend with no vault cash – hides which banks are technically insolvent)
  • 0% fed funds rate
  • 0% discount window rate (hides which banks are technically insolvent)

While it’s expected to taper, the Fed is on pace to own 100% of US debt, public, private, real-estate backed, etc. inside 12-24 months at this rate of purchase

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fate-and-history-the-fed-tosses-the-rules-to-fight-coronavirus-downturn-11587999986?shareToken=st9ee8d12d3bcc46408627b6597a160a40

VIX (fear index) all time high of 82 next day, equity markets reach new lows

  • President Trump and Secretary Mnuchin recently stated: Small Business is the backbone of the American economy
  • Is it anymore? And what does the decline of small business mean for the future of the US economy?

Many large publicly traded companies got caught taking the PPP SBA loans (Shake Shack $10m, Ruth Chris $20m, Autonation $77m)

https://nypost.com/2020/04/27/only-13-companies-have-said-they-will-return-coronavirus-loans/

Dutch Sheets “Conversation with Chuck Pierce” podcast 3/25/2020:

https://www.buzzsprout.com/952780/3124357-conversation-with-chuck-pierce

Chuck Pierce Words

  • August 2019: “By Passover this year, you will have a real Passover”
  • 5780 Rosh Hashanah Sep 26-29: “Nations would come into turmoil until Passover”
  • 2020 “Start Year off Right” Jan conf: “Massive plague-like invasion that would test us through Passover” (I believe CP related to the Egyptian plagues and Passover)
  • “Tighten your Belts” (gird up your loins)
  • The Lord said this will be a hard financial year
  • Las Vegas Jan 26th 2020 said same – got rebuttal and pushback

Since the CV outbreak Chuck has said…

  • “God has put a PAUSE until He sees who is willing to cross over with Him through His blood at Passover”
  • “The Church will need to understand the blood (of Christ). They will experience a real Passover this year…”
  • Passover is a turning point in history for the next move of God. This virus will start shifting at the Passover. The nations will start aligning themselves for or against God. Greatest turning point in history for the next move of God.
as of April 14, 11:00 a.m. EDT
Sources: CDC, state officials and NBC News
  • Warning do not trust in self-strength from 2 Sam 24: “In this census, David had relied on man’s strength but cut off Heaven’s power and all the Hosts and Armies of heaven. How did he do this?  He had forgotten the Word and edict that was given Moses in Exodus 30:11-16, the Law of Ransom — when you take a census, bring an offering.  David then built an Altar to the Lord and gave an offering, and the plague stopped.” CP said something like “I don’t care who you are, you can’t count on your own strength before God” – alluding to the President’s statements about his leadership in USA strength economy, markets, military. He also noted this is a census year in USA
  • Chuck also made mention that we have a golden calf in NYC, alluding to the global financial markets
  • If the church doesn’t rise up in prayer in 2020, China would have complete economic domination by 2026. Even America would look like China.
  • By August 2020, the Church will have a new voice in America

This is the Passover that the economic system of the world gets realigned” – Chuck Pierce

  • Also Chuck noted that after all of the bitter division in our nation and cursing of the President these past 3 years (investigations, impeachment, etc.), it would have been a surprise if we had NOT received a plague

Rick Joyner, 2004; 2006

Excerpt from “THE RING OF FIRE IS NOW SHAKING WITH EARTHQUAKES ALMOST WEEKLY–THE WEST COAST IS ON THE SAME RING OF FIRE” Word Published October 19, 2006

The New Breed

Just as true warriors run to the sound of battle, not away from it, there are Kingdom messengers who will not run from disaster and problems, but to them. They will not shrink back from any level of chaos, but rather bring order and peace to it. As the world continues to fall apart, they will stand on solid ground, and in due time begin to draw the attention of the world because of it. These will not lose their peace in the midst of any threat or problem because they will have built their lives on the Kingdom that cannot be shaken by anything happening on the earth. Their peace will calm many storms.

We are in the time when those who have built their lives on the Kingdom of God, and those who have not, will become increasingly clear.

One of the basic characteristics of those whose lives have been established on the Kingdom of God, is that they will have peace and come alive, even thriving during times of trouble. This is because they have been prepared to live in the greatest time of trouble the world has ever known. They prepared by building their lives on the Kingdom, not on the things of this world that are so easily shaken.

This new breed are the friends of the Holy Spirit, who saw the world and moved upon it in its original state of chaos, and will do so again upon the chaos mankind has created by trying to live without God. Just as the Holy Spirit brought forth a beautiful creation before, He will bring forth a new creation after this chaos, that even eclipses the first in its beauty and harmony.

It is simply impossible for mankind to mess up things so badly, that the Holy Spirit cannot fix them, quickly and easily. All we have to do is turn to Him and ask. In preparation for the restoration of mankind and the earth that is coming, He will begin to move upon the problems and chaos in the lives of all who call upon the name of the Lord. We are going to know the Holy Spirit as the One who can fix anything, easily and quickly. As we are charged in Philippians 4:6-7:

“Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, shall guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”

The New Breed (excerpt from Prophetic Bulletin, Feb 29, 2004)

One of the most tragic statements in the Bible is Philippians 2:19-21:

“But I hope in the Lord Jesus to send Timothy to you shortly, so that I also may be encouraged when I learn of your condition.

For I have no one else of kindred spirit who will genuinely be concerned for your welfare. For they all seek after their own interests, not those of Christ Jesus.”

Paul spent his life sacrificing his own interests, and even risking his life repeatedly for the sake of the gospel. After all those years, he only had one associate, Timothy, who was not in ministry for his own interests, but was sincerely seeking the interests of the Lord. How would the ministry of today measure up to this?

I have become convinced that, overall, the leadership of the church in our times is probably the greatest since the first century. We do have many failures, which receive most of the publicity. However, there are many today that have likewise sacrificed their own, selfish interests their entire lives to serve the interests of Christ and His people. For those we should be very thankful. Even so, the basic fabric and nature of modern ministry has more in common with a profession or a business, than a calling. That is about to change.

As the church has grown further from the cross over time, the more selfish and deceived it has become. We can find great souls in each generation who did behold the cross, and took up their crosses daily, doing all things for the sake of the gospel. These are the great and continuing voices from history which still speak. These are the ones who heeded the Lord’s exhortation in Matthew 16:24-25:

“If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.

For whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake shall find it.”

The Lord began speaking to some of us twenty years ago, saying, “the cross will be popular again.” He also said that when this happens, a new breed of leadership, a new breed of Christians, and a radically new church would arise. We have now come to that time. There is going to arise within the church a renewal movement which truly deserves the name. It is going to be so radical and so powerful, that it is going to make all things new. The present emerging generation has been called the most selfish yet. Selfishness and arrogance have become increasingly powerful strongholds within it. Even so, where sin increases, grace will increase even more (see Romans 5:20). The emerging generation will produce the most selfless and self-sacrificing Christians seen since the first century. This is going to result in a release of spiritual power and authority such as has not been seen since the first century. True apostles are going to walk the earth again, and where they walk, true apostolic churches will arise.

This new breed of Christians will be the most fearless people on earth because they will have already died to this world, and it is impossible for the dead to fear. They will walk in unprecedented faith because they will have learned the secret of not looking at themselves and who they are, but at the Lord and who He is. They will not live by faith in their own abilities, but by faith in His strength. They will walk in unprecedented power because they will have learned the secret: the cross “is the power of God” (I Corinthians 1:18)

video courtesy of https://billhigh.com/

David Green shares his life story and founding Hobby Lobby, a Christian arts and crafts chain that truly embodies business and ministry together. He shares insights from the journey and Godly wisdom worth noting.

Growing Up

David was one of six children. He learned these simple yet profound principals from his parents, who were pastors and farmers:

Provider. God always provided for our family’s needs.

Tithing. My parents loved to tithe – they would record each vegetable harvested so that they could tithe (first fruits) on everything

Wife of Character. David met his wife Barbara at the local five and dime. He grew up Pentecostal tradition and Barbara Baptist.

Beginnings

Work. Before starting Hobby Lobby, David worked at TG&Y, a five and dime variety store chain started during the great depression. Their motto was “[We] have what people want at a price they can afford to pay”, and they sold: “Turtles, Girdles and Yoyos”

Ministry. As a “merchant”, David’s mom would periodically ask him: “but what are you doing for the Lord?” David figured out that he could be just as called, just as anointed to minister as a merchant as his 5 brothers and sisters who were pastors.

Creativity. The arts and craft business started with a fad of people decorating their walls with little canvas and frames of painted barns, windmills and such.

Start-up Loan. Went to the bank to borrow $600. $450 of which was for a miter to make frames. Salesman went out with samples and sold $4000 worth of product, but they had no money to build inventory. Went to bank again and said, if you can extend credit 60 days we can pay you back with the payables on these sales, assuming it would take 30 days. “I didn’t know that people wouldn’t pay in 30 days when you gave them 30 days”

Family Labor. Started in the garage. Boys were 7 and 9 years old and David payed them 7 cents an hour. Barbara worked for the first 5 labors free.

1st Hobby Lobby 300 sq ft storefront, 300 manufacturing space. Oklahoma.

2nd store opened 1975 and David left his “job” at TG&Y where he was earning $26,000 per year. Somehow, they were able to get by with David taking a reduced $13,000 salary out of the young company.

Administrative Gift. David considers his wife a “Proverbs 31” woman. Barbara never would spend more money than they had as a family, yet always provided for the kids, including making their clothes, with whatever they had. She trusted in the Lord in this special way.

Nearly Went Bust

Foreclosure. In the mid-1980s, there was an oil bust. The bank was threatening to foreclose. Couldn’t order new merchandise because they hadn’t yet paid for the other merchandise.

Repentance from Self-Reliance. God taught David how to trust and rely on God instead of himself. Even as he “always said the right things” giving God the credit through his lips, but he doubts it was in his heart. In fact he recalls God saying: “OK, your so smart you can have [the company] by yourself”. And I did have it myself. Yes, he gave me life, breath, etc. but as far as Him blessing our company, that wasn’t me. Thankful for this time.

Humility. David would crawl under his desk and cry out to God for help. “Where are we going to go from here?”

Family Decision. Significant family meeting at that time, letting everyone know we might lose everything. My oldest son said, “Dad, we’re not relying on you, we’re relying on God” My son taught me something that day.

Giving

Gleaning. In the beginning they sold beads to make necklaces. Thank God for the hippies! They would line up their beads on the floor to make necklaces and we knew they were stealing some of them. But we did the math and figured it would still work even if they stole 30% of the beads!

Faith. Attended a conference with missionaries going all over the world handing out Christian literature. Gave a small amount. But on the flight home God said: “I want you to give $30,000”. David didn’t have $30,000, so he consulted with Barbara and said “how can we do this?”. So they came up with an idea. They had $7500 at the time, and wrote out 3 additional post-dated checks – one for each month, trusting God that they would have $7500 each month somehow.

Giving 50%. David started by paying the tithe. Then more than tithes. God caught him one day and said “You can’t out give God”. Discussed with the family how can we outgive God? Son gave a plan. Give the largest amount they had ever given. Then they added that amount same to itself and continued. Every 6 months they increased their giving in that way. Not doubled, added the same amount. They looked at those numbers out in time and said, no way is this possible. But then they did it for over 20 years! They were even ahead of that eventually, and decided well the government allows up to 50% to be deducted for tax purposes, let’s aim for that. So that’s where God has us today. (I believe the Green’s has given away $500m plus)

Contentment. How do you give away 50%? We have some cars and a house and we’re good. We give to give.

Give to Get is all about greed. We aren’t about that. We do give based on a need. We do respond to God’s calling in obedience.

Meet monthly to give. They have 300 requests each month. Don’t want to give shallow across the board. But want only to go deep with a few.

Wealth. Bill struggled and couldn’t sleep. 2nd hardest time in his life. Would wealth, even billions cause trouble to his children, others? Advisors were saying break it up into twigs, branches, leafs, but didn’t make sense to David. So, they have given 100% of the stock in the company away to a “stewardship trust”. Can’t be touched. The wealth is protected. We/kids are stewards. They legally are only stewards. “God owns everything” scripture (Psalm 24:1). Family gets what they earn, but that’s it. Keep the tree and reap the fruit. Also use a donor advised fund.

Two Ground Rules for giving. God’s word and man’s soul. The only things that are eternal.

Growth

Now have 50+ stores and 36,000 employees. 10 million square foot distribution facility in Oklahoma City. One brick at a time.

No long-term debt.

$15 minimum wage policy instituted few years ago. Now $15.70 per hour. That’s good, but if they get saved, that’s great.

God

HL employs 6 chaplins to serve leadership and the people. Pray at meetings.

Witness. Meeting of new employees – 50 managers accept Jesus who were training to be VPs. We preach the gospel at work.

Lawsuits. At any given time fighting 70 lawsuits. David figures he can take one more lawsuit to risk preaching the gospel at work.

Not just money. Blessings from God for his parents were children and health. Not just money for money.

Family harder than Business. Doing things better for God. God first, family next, the business being successful third. Strong marriage as platform for God to raise up the kids and family.

Two life goals. One: Raise up and sustain family. Not just the kids, but the grand-kids and the great-grand kids to serve the Lord. Two: Share the good news of Jesus.

https://www.newenglandalliance.net/we-will-go