Discussion Topic: Socialism

Dave Warn suggested we dedicate this next discussion to specifically review socialism (since most of our discussion last time focused on capitalism).

Discussion Questions:

1. How has socialism become so popular in the USA again? With the Democratic Party turning hard to the left (and the emergence of Bernie Sanders as a young person’s populist). Especially with the next generation, under the kindler friendlier guise of “Democratic Socialism”?
2. So, what is Democratic Socialism, how does it differ from historical socialism, communism, and marxism?
3. Is there “socialism” in the bible? We examine “they held all things in common” in the early church and the book of Acts (Acts 2:44 & 4:32).
4. Why is secular humanism (even atheism) so closely tied with socialism? And why has the Democratic party moving away from God (yet trying to retain some mentioning of God in the general elections). Witness the democratic conventions past several cycles.

Since we used Milton Friedman as somewhat of a foil as a “villain” in our discussion of capitalism, let’s now turn to him as a foil discussing socialism as a “sage”. As I mentioned last time, while I disagree with Friedman’s puritan Adam Smith philosophy, I I actually think Friedman was a brilliant mind (and debater) who had some great points especially about freedom. Here is one of them:

A society that puts equality—in the sense of equality of outcome—ahead of freedom will end up with neither equality nor freedom. The use of force to achieve equality will destroy freedom, and the force, introduced for good purposes, will end up in the hands of people who use it to promote their own interests.

Milton Friedman

Finally, how do we deal with socialism’s valid criticisms of the current capitalistic system? The wealthiest 1% vs. the 99%? The greed and corruption? The crony capitalism? The abuse of the poor?

If these are valid issues (sin in God’s sight), do we need to repent and course correct in the USA / Western Church?

And how does all this relate to God’s people being commanded to “come out of Babylon” in Revelation 18:4?

Roundtable Discussion:
Comparing Types of Economy

We discuss the differences between Capitalism and Socialism, and then examine Biblical Economy as it differs from both according to scripture. We also get into the prejudices of each and how each has become woven into a type of “sacred cow” system politically in the US in the form of Conservative Republican Crony Capitalism vs. Progressive Democratic Socialism (which is like Socialism riding the back of Crony Capitalism’s profits), which each has its partial truths, but then gets it twisted together with sin/falsehoods, especially the greed, fear and idolatry of money.

Abbreviated and Paraphrased History of 3 economic models:

Capitalism

• Adam Smith generally considered the “Father of Capitalism”, though the term came later. He wrote about the “Invisible Hand” in and free market theory in Theory of Moral Sentiments 1759 and the Wealth of Nations in 1776 which focused on free markets (laissez-faire vs. planned economy) and unqualified benefits of “the self-interest”.
• He identified with the Age of Enlightenment 1700-1800s through mentor David Hume and others, where reason supplanted concepts of being under “superstition of the gods”, adopting the philosophy of Descartes “I think therefore I am”.
• Karl Marx birthed the term Capitalism in 1867 (see below)
• John Maynard Keynes comments on the volatility and irrationality of free markets using the term “Animal Spirits” in his 1936 work The General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money, which describes the business cycle in a free market economy.
• Milton Friedman NYT article 1970 publishes the “Friedman Doctrine” further refining what modern capitalism is in its purest form
• Effectively separates corporate action “a corporation is not a person” from individual moral responsibility. There is no moral responsibility beyond “profit” as long as it is made “within the rules” (presumably of current law).

Socialism

• Marxism does not have a basis for law, only a critic of law at the time, which was common law
• Karl Marx and Friedrich Engles published the Communist Manifesto 1848, The Condition of the Working Class in England 1848, and Das Kapital 1867, highlighting injustices in the industrial revolution and exploitation of workers to justify an alternative economy
• Lenin implements Marxist ideas into Communism of the Soviet Union. China, Vietnam and other nations followed. Soviet Union collapses in 1989.
• Progressive movement forms in USA under Woodrow Wilson 1900s, FDR 1930s growing the role of government and the taxes to support it, moving towards socialism

Biblical Economy

“Stand at the crossroads and look; ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls.” – Jeremiah 6:16

• Edenic Covenant (or Adamic Law) – Sabbath, permission (Tree of Life) and prohibition (Tree of Knowledge), etc.
• Noahic Covenant / Noahide laws (seven laws) – including no idolatry, courts of justice
• Abrahamic Covenant
• Mosaic laws – range of law including economic, moral and ethical; the power to produce wealth is to confirm covenant that God made with his people (Exodus 8)
• New Covenant in Jesus’ blood – sermon on the mount focusing on the heart, even before the act

Discussion Subject:

Debt vs. Equity part II

The matter of charging interest in scripture. And recourse. We look at the Pilgrims and 400 years later in America. We also look at the creation of the Federal Reserve and what was good or bad about it.

• What does the Bible have to say about charging interest to the poor? Profiting from the poor? And what does the scripture say about charging interest to “fellow Israelites”? Why? How is this in conflict with the very essence of our depersonalized financial system today? With fractional reserve “recourse lending” at “interest”? The “yield curve” of the debt market? And the lack of moral accountability behind “shareholder’s interests” and the relentless pursuit of “earnings per share” today?
• How does modern day bankruptcy differ from the biblical Shmita idea of forgiveness of debt? The Jubilee?

• We examine the “debt” and “equity” the Pilgrims took on 400 years ago with John Pierce and the London investors group known as the “Merchant Adventurers”. They, in turn, had made a land deal with the Virginia Company, having renegotiated it via the “Pierce Patent” circa 1621. 10 years later, the Pilgrims were able to settle their obligations through the “Bradford Patent”. We look at the potential Biblical parallel of Israel being enslaved for 400 years in Egypt. Toward the end it got so bad, Pharaoh required God’s people to “build bricks without straw”. Are we in a similar situation today with our utter dependency on the Fed and our financial markets?

• We look at the creation of the Federal Reserve via the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. It is often said, the Fed is neither owned by the Federal government, nor is actually required to carry any “reserves” by statute (as one traditionally thinks of reserves; gold for instance).

Good book on this is: The Creature from Jekyll Island; A Second Look at the Federal Reserve

Roundtable Discussion

Debt vs. Equity – or is there a better way?

What does the bible have to say about Debt?

• the borrower is a slave to the lender – Proverbs 22:7
• you are to be the lender, not the borrower
• freely lend to your brother who ask to borrow from you
• lend to your enemy – Luke 6:34
• don’t expect to be repaid by those you have lent to – Luke 6:35
• Paul said “Owe no one anything” – Romans 13:8

What does the bible have to say about Equity? (partnerships)

• Do not yoke yourselves with unbelievers – 2 Cor 6:14
• What does Christ have to do with Belile? – 2 Cor 6:15
• do not profit from the poor – Ezekiel 18:13
• every seventh year rest the land, vinyard, olive grove and let the poor take whatever comes from it that year, then also the animals – Exodus 23:11
• “Be careful with you for partnerships with” – prophetic word I received in 2005

We biblically examine :

Interest

• prohibition on charging interest to the needy – Exodus 22:25
• prohibition on charging interest to fellow Israelites – Deuteronomy 23:19
• prohibition in the early church from charging ANY interest at all
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury
• Did Christ teach on interest? Yes – he mentioned interest in the parable of the talents Matt 25:27 “interest with the bankers”, yet says in beatitudes says do not expect anything in return from even your enemy Luke 6:34-35. So what did he mean?
• biblical usury – is the prohibition on high interest or any interest?
• modern day interest in our present day Fed banking system

Recourse

• do not require a pledge of essentials – Exodus 22:25-27
• return the pledge – Ezekiel 18:7
• do not oppress anyone- Ezekiel 18:7
• “And if he cries to me, I will hear, for I am compassionate” Exodus 22:27

Debt forgiveness

• The “Shmita” debt forgiveness cycle – forgive every seventh year – Deut 15:1
• even if the loan was made in the sixth year, don’t be like that! – Deut 15:9
• The “Jubilee” returning of lands and freeing of slaves – Lev 25:8-12

“I choose other”
The New Breed of Investment and Capital Structure

Other critical issues:

The responsibility of the borrower

• Repay what you borrow

The responsibility of the lender

• Freely lend – Leviticus 25:35-36
• Don’t oppress the borrower
• Forgive debts every 7 years
• Return mortgaged lands to family every 7×7 years

The principal behind asymmetrical giving and receiving

• God is the mediator, not man
• God is the judge, not man
• We don’t give to get, lend to get, help to get
• We let God recompense us, if the person we lend to cannot repay
• Not a quid-pro-quo

Business transactions between two parties, neither of which is disadvantaged

• Grace for each side to give up something to the other
• Don’t have to “take what’s yours”
• Don’t view as fixed pie
• Anyone willing to let the other have the bigger portion will be rewarded by the Lord
• Business is an opportunity to give/help others before it is an opportunity to profit

Discussion Questions / Subtopics :

1. Why is what Chuck Pierce says relevant?

• Background on Chuck as a prophetic voice – understand 2 Chron 20:20
• Do the work – check out his prophetic track record (https://newbreed.co/2020/04/06/chuck-pierce-and-dutch-sheets-cv19/)
• Scriptural, preaches the gospel, and honors the Jewish people & Israel. Gen 12:3

2. If the USA continues down the track it’s headed and does not turn back to God, we will “look like China” by 2026.

• Read here: https://newbreed.co/2019/07/24/key-words-for-america/
• What does Chuck mean by this?

3. Chuck spoke of times ahead here in the USA where Christians are going to have to relearn how to multiply food and resources, trusting heaven for miraculous intervention. This is what we refer to as the “electric” side of the “hybrid power” of the New Breed of Business. Very different from “money power”. Chuck mentioned 3 laws related to this:

• the law of use
• the law of multiplication
• the law of reciprocity

4. “…we’re a very sophisticated society. But some way another we’re about to get desperate enough to act a little wilder”

Implications…

• New Wineskin of Church
• Bold and courageous – Joshua 1:5
• People of God doing exploits – Daniel 11:32
• Raise the dead, heal the sick, give sight to the blind

5. “We can’t be muzzled”

6. “We can’t be religious in this era”

• form of Godliness but no power – 2 Tim 3:5

7. “It is a war season”

• “Keys of Covenant”

8. “We’re pulling out the book again” (rediscover the Word of God)

• Old Testament morals and ethics in business practices
• Sermon on the Mount

Chuck Pierce – Four Resets USA

Reset Conference – Oasis Church, Middletown, OH – October 8th, 2020

Pivot

[starts 1:36:45 in video]

Put your hand on someone and loose these three words:

• Faith
• Confidence
• Awakening

Now, I want before we’re seated – I believe this gathering is this important. I don’t believe without Dutch Sheets Ministries stepping out in faith to gather us here and the hosting place of Oasis [Church] hosting us, that we could really see the pivot in this nation that we need to see. Let’s give a shout for these ministries.

Now we always want to thank Judah for going first. Let’s thank God for this [worship] team. Now bless someone. Stay socially distant and sit down.

This is a very interesting time that we’re living, in that we’re living in and I do want to encourage you during this time. Charisma asked me to write a book called the Passover Prophecies. And the reason that book is important for us is because we’re in an era of Passover. Not just one year, but we’re going to have to understand passing over and keep passing over. Now I want you to tell someone that we’ve got to keep passing over.

Time to Reset

I believe the Lord is training us in many ways right now. I believe that angelic hosts are visiting us and I believe we are in a moment of time when you hear the word Reset you think really: Time. That’s what – that’s the first thing you think. You think, well I need to reset my watch I need to reset my alarm. Look at somebody and say, “We need to reset our alarms”. And one of the things that I thought about when I usually have a lot of – a few power points to help us see things. But, what I thought about when I was thinking about this gathering is the phrase “Behold I do a new thing…” and that spoke Reset to me. And with that reset the whole context of that prophecy by Isaiah was this: the nation will go into captivity and yet in the midst of their captivity I already have a plan to do a new thing.

America has a Destiny like Israel

I believe we are at that place where God is saying: “I am activating my plan to do a new thing in America.” Let’s thank God for that. And really what He was saying to Israel was this – you have a destiny that I’m not going to let you let go of. And I really believe that’s what this reset meeting is about. I believe there’s a destiny that has tried to be pried out of God’s people’s hands in this Nation, and the Lord’s saying: “I have a plan and it’s more important for me that your destiny – the destiny of America come forth in this hour.” It is even more than you know in this nation and in this place that we’re in.

We are in a new era that new era began last Rosh Hashanah, not this the one we’ve just participated in. We’re in the Feast of Tabernacles. Right now this could not be a better timed gathering for our Nation than right at this moment. God had to have a people that would come together and tabernacle on behalf of a Nation and I know He is tabernacling with us here for a moment.

I really was beyond, being able to get up here and say anything because I felt the presence of our Lord so strong and His spirit so strong in our midst. This new era represents coming back in a divine return. It’s an era of divine return. We’re coming back face to face with the Lord.

That’s actually what the word “Pey” means in Hebrew. We’re coming “face to face”. But it also means what Dutch said when he was up here. It means you have a voice filled with My Breath. And if ever in a decade your voice must be heard it is now, saith the Lord.

And when [Dutch] said: “I will not be muzzled”, I cannot think of one person that I more honor and respect for the voice that he carries for this Nation. We cannot be muzzled this decade. We have to know this decade is about our mouth. This era is about our mouth. It’s about the voice that comes out of your house. Put your hand right here [points to chest]. It is about the voice that comes out of your house. Where He dwells, we must speak up.

We can’t be religious this era. We’ve got to say what we need to say, when we need to say it. Now, most people that know me know I stay in trouble most of the time doing that, but like never before we have to do this. And if we don’t…

We have now entered – we are now celebrating over the new year ahead, tonight. See we’re celebrating the triumph of what we will look like. You are a prophetic people. You’re not celebrating what’s just happening tonight. You are already celebrating what will be, this entire year. And this entire year is about Father realigning us. It’s about Father coming down. It’s about us becoming friend or foe. Let’s make a decree right now: “Lord, we want to be your friend in this Nation.”

War Season

It is a war season. I reminded Dutch of when we were in Chattanooga [TN] on October 8th, 2018. And the Spirit of God fell on us and the Lord began to prophesy: “You are headed into a swamp”. And He said for the next two years and four months this swamp will get so deep in this nation, and so much entanglement in this nation will come. He said it will look like a civil war by the second year as you enter in. I mean this is recorded. You can go and listen to it.

And [Dutch] said “What will this look like?” And I said, “Well I don’t know.” I know I walked through a swamp once. And I know what that looked like as I saw [water] moccasins fall down. And I saw all sorts of creatures and I wondered if I would make it through the swamp.

But it – we are living in probably the most tumultuous times that we have known. And yet we’re a very sophisticated society. But some way another we’re about to get desperate enough to act a little wilder than we’ve ever acted. Meetings like this are very key for us if you want a picture of what this year looks like. It looks like the Lion of the Tribe of Judah facing off the dragon that you read about in Revelations chapter 2. And right in the middle of it is you.

Therefore, your voice is needed to tip the balance of what that war looks like. And that’s every one of us in this room. You cannot be afraid of the conflicts ahead. Even what I saw before Jane got up here and prophesied I felt that an angel come down. I turned around to look to see him standing behind us and above us and I saw the words that are ahead. We have seen nations give themselves over and yet within those nations we’re crying out for those remnants to rise up again.

This nation has not yet given itself over. We have a strong remnant that is now rising up and we have to be a strong remnant with confidence because of what is ahead.

And this is what I want to leave you with. I see new keys falling down. Now Dutch is our key filling us up with his Isaiah 22:22. But I see keys to the Kingdom falling down. Keys for now. Weapons for now. Weapons for us to unlock mysteries and revelations and understandings that we’ve never unlocked. I see keys of covenant coming down. I see keys of confidence coming down. We must be a confident people. That is the Old Testament word for faith.

Four Resets

And then when we talk about reset. I see four major reset areas that are happening.

One – Worship Prophetic

The first is a worship prophetic reset and it looks like this: it looks like when Abraham took Isaac up to Mount Moriah. And it really looks like this. Not what we have seen. It looks like Isaac having to understand the power of submission and laying on that altar in a way that he could only trust what the generation before him was saying.

Two – Generations

I see a reset this year between the generations. I see there must be a generation arise that say we believe in what we’re hearing we believe in what we’re hearing.

Just think if Isaac had kicked against that worship altar? See he wasn’t a kid – he was 38 years old. And without him fully submitting to the prophetic word that his forefather carried, he could not receive what was necessary for him to carry. That must happen this year. It must happen starting now.

And then I see a reset that is so key. And I call it: “The second generation Jezebel overthrow.” I come from a family that had lots going forward and many blessings. And I saw the enemy enter into that family and I will say this it took a second generation to overthrow the disaster of the generation before it. And we’re still warring for the next generation to overthrow it.

And it looks like Athaliah. See, God promised David he would always have someone on his throne to rule from heaven. To be aligned with Him.

What we’re doing here tonight is reseeding in this nation the Tabernacle of David again. The only time that that did not occur was seven years when Athaliah removed everybody. This was after Jezebel. It was worse than Jezebel. She removed. And her strategy was to get rid of David’s throne and any seed that could carry it forth. The Lord says, “Starting now we are in a war to see that throne for the seed” that God intends to rule this land be repositioned.

Three – Kingdom Justice

The third reset I see is this: it’s a reset for the re-establishment of Kingdom justice. And it looks like a combination of David and Hezekiah and Josiah realigning. Each one carried a certain portion hat had to come in place so something got overthrown so the next one could better get in place. Hezekiah had to do Passover twice to overthrow it. Josiah had to pull the book out again. I’d agree we’re pulling the book out again. And we’re going to have to speak it. We’re going to have to speak it. It’s a plumb line to realign us into the atmosphere.

Four – Economic

[1:53:34]

And then the fourth reset I see is an economic reset.

See I have watched and been involved in both China and Russia since the early 80s. Therefore I know economic structures and I have seen them give over to an economic structure that is filled with evil materialistic selfishness.

America was meant to be the most giving nation in the earth. America was meant to prosper and to create a blessing throughout the earth.

This economic reset has been necessary to refocus us in on realigning us with the God of provision and because of that we are in probably one of the most incredible times in our history. We’re probably not even aware fully of the economic ramifications that are looming to control us and yet…

I decree right now – just as Yeshua would decree – we are now resetting an economic system.

You say what does that look like?

It’s what looked like at the time where He reset his authority to move forward. John had his head cut off that was the last season. And the first thing the Lord taught his disciples after John’s head was cut off was – we’ve got a following now going on.

People are following and they turned to Him and they said you need to tell them to go home. I’m here to tell you we can’t go home. If ever we must gain momentum and follow, it is now.

And you know what? He looked at his disciples and said – He said these people are going to fall out on us. They’re going to die on us if you don’t – if they don’t go home and eat. They can come back and hear you some other time.

And He said you know what? You’re not sending them home. You’re going to feed them. And let me teach you something about the law of use, and the law of multiplication, and the law of reciprocity. I am here to tell you. And then all of a sudden they found a small handful that a lunch that a young boy had and it fed and fed and fed and they kept moving forward.

I want you to decree right now that provision is coming to keep us moving forward.

Listen there’s some people out there that have deep pockets. Decree their pockets start emptying up. Decree that things start moving forward. This decree that we have the provision to create a movement like this and keep it moving forward.

Matter of fact, I think right now we need to be able to give and worship. I want you to stop right now and say: Lord, there is a provision for this movement that I am giving into right now. You make your check out – you give on the web out there. If you’ve ever given you need to give now and say we are giving in to the pivot movement that will save a nation and restore a harvest movement from this land, How it was meant to be sent forth? I don’t know of anybody that I would give more into than Dutch Sheets Ministries.

And I right now – this is you – always bring an offering during Feast of Tabernacles. You bring a feast offering and do you know what it’s called? It’s a memorial offering that God remembers until this time next year. Every time you need, He will remember this offering and some way your need will be met.

See this reset is linked with us seeing into a dimension that we’ve never seen into before. It’s linked with us not looking at what we’ve got but what is out there that God is saying: ”I want you to get. I want you to bring in. I want you to hold it up. I want you to break it open. I want you to bring it to Me. I have got ways to multiply.” What you do right now – that will sustain you into the future.

Restore

I have watched the Lord do this. He promised me this when I was eight [years old]. That He would restore what had been lost in our family. I have watched Him over 50 years almost repeat day after day and do that. He has ways beyond us and right now.

He’s activating a reset of our economic way of thinking

And I want us to do this. I want us to stand up. I want us to hold this Tabernacle offering up. I want Jeremy to lead us. I want us to wave it before the Lord. That’s what they would do they would bring their tabernacle offering. And they would bring it on behalf of a nation.

I don’t know of another gathering going on like this right now this weekend. I watched last week at the beginning of it where Washington was being covered and people crying out. This is a time we must shift into this divine return and reset. Say it: divine return. Say: divine reset.

You need to decree over your harvest – your storehouse – a divine reset. Decree it right now. Decree it. Speak into that gift. If you don’t have a gift, get some. Get something from somebody. You need to say: “This is a divine moment to reset our future.” Reset our provisions. See, the reset Abraham did? God came down as Jehovah Jireh and said: “Let me show you your provision.” At the end Yeshua did the same thing. He said let me show you your provision and how to multiply. Just wave it before the Lord. Let’s worship with it.

[end of segment 2:01:30 in video]

Discussion Subject: The Power of Giving

Economy of Giving and Receiving (vs. capitalism and socialism)

Freely you have received, freely you shall give. Matt 10:8
What does this scripture mean?

Compassion, generosity and the joy of giving

• “It is better to give than receive” – Acts 20:35
• “Don’t let your left hand know what you right is doing” – Matt 6:3
• Don’t give to those who are rich – James 2; Prov 22:16
• Don’t give to be seen by others – Matt 6:2
• Give in secret – the Father will reward you openly – Matt 6:4
• Self-interest v. Father’s interest – what is the Father doing?

• Principle of sowing and reaping
• “If you have a need sow a seed” the same as “giving to get”?
• Death and multiplication – Unless a seed falls to the ground and dies – Matt 12:24-
• Leave behind – receiving 100 fold – Mark 10:30
• The power of sacrificial giving – the widow’s mite – Mark 12:41-44
• The power of multiplication
• The power of being asymmetrical and non-reciprocal giving
• When we let go and let God, he can provide the increase
• cast your bread on many waters – Eccl 11

• Lending without interest
• Lending without being expected to be repaid

• Giving as investing
• give and it shall be given
• windows of heaven
• give and you will have treasure in heaven – matt 6:19
• Give the unrighteous mammon and make friends who welcome you in heaven – Luke 16:9