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Round Table Discussion – Does God Require a Tithe?

Part of financial reformation is returning to biblical understanding of giving, tithing, offerings, investment for believers under the new covenant.

I’ll share some background to the topic, give my understanding and testimony, then we will open up the discussion to hear everyone’s questions, testimonies and perspectives.

Recently, Creflo Dollar apologized for all his previous teachings on tithing. He literally said “you can throw them out”. He now understands giving by grace, quoting Romans 6:14 “…you are not under the law, but under grace”.. He also said the Lord encountered him one morning and said “giving demonstrates your belief that God will provide for you.” (paraphrase). However, this apparently also included a statement that God doesn’t require a tithe under the new covenant.

You can view Creflo’s apology and understanding here: Creflo Dollar – The Great Misunderstanding

So, here’s the question: Does Creflo’s new perspective proverbially “throw the baby out with the bathwater”? In other words, some do indeed teach that God does not require us to give a tithe or really any particular amount under the new covenant of grace. But does that mean the principle of tithing is no longer valid? Or, alternatively, is it rightfully understood that tithing is really a baseline concept of giving under grace?

Ready? Read.

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.It is by grace we are saved” Ephesians 2:8

“What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?”

Romans 6:1-2

So it is very true we are no longer under the law but grace. But that does not eliminate a heart posture of loving God and loving his law righteousness.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfill them.”Matthew 5:17

“For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Matthew 5:18-19

In fact, Jesus went on to teach in the “sermon on the mount” that righteousness in Him goes beyond the law, with the law as a baseline level or standard.

“For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

Matthew 5:20

What does that mean? If we are no longer under the law, but grace, but do we throw out the 10 commandments? Of course not, for Jesus said:

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment.”

Matthew 5:21

“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Matthew 5:48

Wait. I thought we were under grace, not the law? How can we be perfect? That would mean we wouldn’t sin.

“This is the new covenant I will make with my people on that day, says the LORD: I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”
Hebrews 10:16
It is only by the Holy Spirit within us acting together with us that we can “be perfect”. Not through our flesh. Our flesh will continue to be open to temptation to sin. Which is why we pray “lead me not into temptation, but deliver us from evil”.

Back to Tithing…

So, Is tithing a good thing or not? Does tithing bring a blessing according to Malachi 3 today or not? Does not following it bring a curse?

We will break it down, and take a look at how the “Storehouse Vision” relates to tithing, giving, and investing.

“Bring the whole tithe into the Storehouse, so that there may be food in my house” – Malachi 3:10

Tithing is good for:

  • demonstrating we trust in God as provider
  • bringing food into “God’s House”, which is the body of Christ, the living stones temple
  • helping the poor, widow and the orphan
  • tithing on the tithe (to the regional/state/national/global body – liken to the Levites tithing to the house of Aaron)
  • the only recorded place in the bible where God says to “test Me” with a promise attached of abundant blessings, is in regard to the tithe. Mal 3:10.

Tithing is not good for:

  • perpetuating an old-wine skin, at the expense of the laity (Nicolaitans)
  • operating in a spirit of this World
  • leading in a spirit of Saul
  • manipulating people to give, when ministry leaders fear running out of money
  • attempting to mollify our own financial fears (Pagan notion: “god” won’t provide for me financially unless I offer a sacrifice of money)
  • meeting building projects or budgets that are the vain imaginations of man (good but God)

Tithing is:

  • “on the increase”
  • a tenth
  • separate from offerings
  • to be given to where you receive your covering / are shepherded
  • should not be unto yourself, but “someone greater” (Hebrews 7)

God said in Malachi the people were “robbing him” of tithes and offerings. This implies falling short of a target greater than 10%…

Deep dive reading on reformation in giving: Non-Profit Ministry Bulletin

Round Table Discussion

How to Seed Storehouses (Series)

Storehouse Hub and Spoke Network, Organically Grown by Seeding

Tomorrow we start a series we could call: “How to create a Storehouse”. If you get a chance, read through some of our intro materials here (feedback encouraged so we can improve) :

Because the Storehouse Vision is to create and connect to the Storehouse Network, it is really just part of the administrative, financial, investment backbone or infrastructure of the Church advancing the Kingdom. But, not depending on the financial systems and business practices of this world.

The Storehouse Network is a Fishes and Loaves Network

Storehouses can seed other storehouses to help grow this network. We discuss the problems of local sustainability, USD fund raising dependence, and the power of giving a hand-up instead of a hand-out.

Join us as we hear testimonies, share ideas, and learn together.

A Closing Prayer offered by Kay Cavander…

United by His spirit.
Let’s stand in one accord.
As people who have purposed.
To love and serve the Lord.

As We knit our hearts together
Through the Word and fervent
We can strengthen one another
And show the world we care.

So clothe yourself with Jesus,
Take up your sword and shield,
For our weapons are not carnal,
On this end time batlefield.

For we’re part of God’s great army,
Prepared in these Last Days,
To tell the lost of Jesus,
And set the world ablaze!

Now mighly God we praise you,
For all we’re yet to be,
As united by your Spirit,
We go on to victory!


Round Table Discussion –
Provision without Money Part 2

As background, last week’s materials and podcast Part 1:

The Compromising Church… Pergamos … I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.”

Rev 2:12-17

Balaam – a false prophet who sold his services for money

…they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, who loved the wages of wickedness

2 Peter 2:14-15

Nicolaitans – means “conquer the laity”

Instead of Jesus being the head of the church, man is head of this false church with control mechanisms in place to control the laity through a variety of religious means.

“food sacrificed to idols” – spiritually analogous to…

food = provision

sacrificed to idols = idolatry of the provision – ie, mammon

“sexual immorality” – spiritually analogous to being married to wifes who follow false gods, or simply worshiping pagan gods

“to he who overcomes” receives “hidden manna”

Meaning those who come out (repent) from these practices and consecrate themselves (humble themselves), God will provide for them in otherwise imperceptible means (miracles, signs, wonders).

a “new name” on a “white stone”

white represents purity.

name inscribed on a stone – represents a permanency – it is so written

a “new name” is liken to Jacob becoming Israel; Abram becoming Abraham; representing a transformed life…

Combine the two together we get a word picture of repentance, humility, transformation, overcoming, provision from unusual and imperceptible places. Such as water from a rock. Or bread from the sky. Or water into wine. Or a river in the desert. Blooming in the desert.

Round Table Discussion:
Provision without Money

Elisha’s Floating Ax Head

(As background, have a read of the New Breed of Business about page as well as the last discussion we had on “Hybrid Power“)

However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?

Luke 18:8

They could not buy or sell unless they had the mark

Rev 13:17

Man shall not live on bread alone, but by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God

Matt 4:4

Seek first the Kingdom of God, and all these things people worry about (food, clothes, drink) shall be added unto you

Matt 6:33

Hybrid of Ministry and Business

The New Breed of Business reformation can be described both as a hybrid of ministry and business, as well as a hybrid of natural and supernatural power. God sometimes gives me analogies using cars, and a hybrid vehicle has a “combustion engine” aspect (like man’s natural power) plus a “electric power” aspect (like God’s supernatural power or heavenly power).

Porsche 918 RSR Prototype with carbon “Flywheel” electric storage device

Porsche “919 Hybrid” LMP1 Racecar

Let’s take this analogy a step further. This model above is a “919”. 9 Biblically represents the Holy Spirit.

9 Fruits of the Spirit (Gal 5)

Love, patience, kindness, gentleness, meekness, joy, self-control, faithfulness, goodness.

“Against such things there is no law”

These things are released from the inside (the heart), and as we put to work our “natural” efforts and abilities, we are to do so in these Spirits

Good book on this by Bob Jones: Fruits of the Spirit

9 Gifts of the Spirit (1 Cor 12)

Healing, deliverance, prophecy, discernment of spirits, tongues, interpretation of tongues, word of knowledge, wisdom, faith.

All of these carry a “supernatural” power dimension.

So, when looking at business and ministry, we should freely be operating both naturally and supernaturally by the Spirit. In other words, when we do things through natural power (money, efforts) they must be done according to the scripture and according to the fruits. This is similar to the naturally aspirated engine in a hybrid vehicle. But we also need to be trusting in God for the heavenly provision that happens supernaturally (heavenly, angelic). You can’t “buy” with money this power. It’s not “for sale”. Simon the sorcerer tried and was nearly killed (Acts 8). This is similar to the electric power of a hybrid. In the days ahead, we will need both aspects to accomplish the will of God.

In the same way we can pray for someone’s (supernatural) “healing” in the hospital, and also for the doctors’ success (natural), we can pray for and seek natural and supernatural provision as well.

Let’s look at some biblical examples:

People in scripture operating in the natural provision:
Cornelius giving ALMS to the Jews
Boaz blessing the poor, his workers, Ruth and Niomi
Jesus sending forth the adulterous woman and telling her to sin no more
Jesus dining with the disciples
Jesus the carpenter
Israel contributing their silver and gold to the building the tabernacle
Nehemiah leading the wall building and defenses

People in scripture operating in supernatural provision:
Elisha multiplying oil in the pots for the widow
Elisha floating the ax head to recover it for owner
Elijah riding in a chariot of fire
Peter walking on the water
Peter fishing for a 4-drachma coin
Phillip being “translated” to another location
Jesus fed the 5000/4000 miraculously multiplying fish and loaves
Jesus turned water into wine at the wedding
Moses getting water from the rock
Moses parting the red sea

People in modern day operating in supernatural provision:
John G Lake receiving SA entry fee by faith
Heidi Baker seeing food multiply in front of the children when they had no food
Raman Mooi receiving a building and money from Japanese business man without asking (for audio testimony, scroll down to bottom here)
Rob Cassera received a multi-million dollar dinner theater property in Darien, CT for $1
George Muller receiving food and milk for the orphans
Reese Howell praying for the demise of Hitler
$408k mtg settled for $1; $250k mtg eliminated by court

Chandrakaut Shouri

Anyway, all this got stirred up in me again when watching this testimony from 10 Days of Prayer Pentecost: His name is Chandrakaut Shouri and he is from India.

Chandrakaut Shouri

Watch 8 minutes of this clip:

(queued up at 12 min 10 sec – watch through 19m 44 sec). (Watch the whole thing and you will be blessed.)

God sends Chandrakaut and his family into the “jungles” of India into a “dark, remote place”

“We had no finances”
“Lord, what do you want us to do?”
“We had no plans, no projects”

His family rejected him and friends thought he had gone mad
He and his wife had two children at that time
There were no jobs available to them

“Lord help us!”

For four years, all they got was Matt 6:33 “Seek first the Kingdom and do not worry. All will be added unto you” and 4:4 “Man shall not live by bread alone…”

4 years of financial hardship

“Either God did not call us here… or we admit it’s too tough because we can’t take this hardship”

One morning separately, both he and his wife vowed to the Lord, we will stay here where you have called us even if our kids starve.

God then spoke a word: Isaiah 51:22 – and broke off the hardship (having drunk from the cup that makes men stagger).

And ever since that day to this day, they have always had provision and food on the table. He doesn’t know how, but it’s true.

“Why did you make us suffer for such a long time God?”
G: “Right from when you were born, everything reinforced this one thing: ‘without money you cannot survive.’ That had become a very strong chain of bondage in your mind. It took me 4 years to break that”

That was a revelation, and with that revelation came freedom:
“My work is only for the Lord”
“My work is not for sale”
“That was what actually freed me to do what God wants me to do.”

Two Other Examples

More inspiration from our friend Angela Marra about “Listen to the Voice”:

(watch/listen 8 minutes)

And another good related word is about the opposite spirit to “trusting God with all” is a spirit of “self-preservation” sent in by Chareese Whitaker:

Round Table Discussion Topic:
Practical Ways to Come out of “Babylon”, Part 2

Towers in the bible represented pride of man and the “Kingdom of Babylon”

Review last week’s background material and discussion:

We are now seeing more and more the bald-faced evil of Babylon today… Not just the pseudo civil rights of “Choice” of the slaying of innocent children (ancient god Moloch) and the “Pride” of sexual preference (ancient god of Baal), now just straight up sorcery and witchcraft.

Babylon has become a haunt for jackals and demons

Revelation 18:2

straight up sorcery and witchcraft

Google now has their OWN app for that

Sage words from my friend, statesman, and father to the New England Church, the late Dr. Roberto Miranda on money and career vs. the calling of God on people’s lives.

Roundtable Discussion

Nowhere to Hide –
Bear Markets;
Inflation troubles;
Crypto implosion;
Gold and Silver Down As Well

Background Reading from Prior Discussions:
Inflation Signs
Storehouse Vision
Manatee County Storehouse

Inflation Growth

Bitcoin Down

NASDAQ in Bear Market

Inflation Protected Down

Gold Down

Background News Articles for Today’s Discussion:

Conditions Are Ripe for Bear Market
What Happened to TerraUSD?

Headline Fodder

“NASDAQ and S&P Enter Bear Market Territory”
“Crypto Implodes”
“Inflation Soars”
“Sky-high Oil and Gas Prices”
“Yen Plummets”
“Gold Drops”
“Risk-off Trade”

What Shall We Do?

Are we in a perfect storm?

Can God fashion a crisis?

Is it a coincidence that Jonathan Cahn released “The Harbingers of Things to Come” in movie theaters May 12th and 19th?

Is it a coincidence that the morning the Manatee County Storehouse was presented, the market dropped 5%?

What shall we do?

Trust God

I have told you all this so that you may have peace in me. Here on earth you will have many trials and sorrows. But take heart, because I have overcome the world

John 16:33

He has given us a way forward.

In relationship with Him.

In relationship with each other.

In watering others we will be watered. – Prov 11:25

Being Jesus’ hands and feet. – Matt 10:42

“He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty” – Psalm 91:1

“The name of the LORD is a fortified tower; the righteous run to it and are safe.” – Proverb 18:10

The Storehouse Vision

Excerpt from “God’s Economy” on

Practical 2: Does it take a Crisis?

Does it take a crisis to enter into God’s Economy? While it is understandable that most people would prefer incremental steps, sometimes responding to the Lord’s invitation: ‘Will you follow me?’ requires a radical response. We examine what it means to follow Jesus as it relates to the issue of dependency on money / love of money. The way to enter into God’s Economy is saying ‘Yes’ to an invitation from the Lord.

Implementation Example:
Manatee County Storehouse

Presentation of the Manatee County Storehouse at the OMC “5-Fold” weekly meeting in Bradenton, FL. With the New Breed of Business as special guests.

Our host is Gary Crawford.

Background reading / listening:

Gary Crawford Interview – Cities of Refuge

Storehouse Vision

OMC/Manatee Storehouse Paper

Wealth: God’s Plan and Purpose Paper

Roundtable Discussion – Israel, Russia and Inflation Prep

(Part 3 in a series)
Inflation Prep – Part 1
Physical Prep – Part 2

We continue our discussion of inflation impact and preparation. Firstly spiritual preparation, then also natural preparation in heavenly wisdom. We also zoom back out and take a look at the macro geo-political picture again to understand the impact of foreign currency exchange, global trade, and supply lines which affect everything from cars to food.

Israel: The World’s Prophetic Clock

The Israel Factor

On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.

Zechariah 12:3

Israel adds Chinese Yuan to Foreign Reserves Cutting US Dollars

Article on Israel’s ties to Russia and Ukraine, and choosing its own direction different from USA

Recall what Chuck Pierce talked about in Passover Prophecies that we needed to align with Israel to maintain global trade. This seems to be key. 

Note that Israel is moving closer to Russia and China. This is different from its historically close ally, The United States. Israel may see some of the “writing on the wall” with respect to the US losing its favored position of the world’s reserve currency and sole military superpower.

Russia, Russia

Since Russia invaded the Ukraine, the Western coalition of nations sanctioning Russia for its unprovoked actions touted the decline in the Ruble as evidence that sanctions were working. However, since then Russian has played its commodities card, which is to say that it is willing to back the Ruble with gold, and since their oil must be settled in Rubles now, their oil as well. So its now become a preview of a coming economic and currency “arms race” of commodity based/backed currencies vs. fiat currencies. The trouble with the US and the Euro, etc. is the level of the Western nation’s indebtedness cuts against the USD based world reserve currency status. So USD has gone up against other pure Western fiat currencies, such as the Euro, Pound Sterling, and the Yen, but has gone down against the Ruble. And the Chinese yuan was about the same as before, but with the recent Chinese CV19 lockdowns, it has declined slightly against the Dollar.

Ruble goes Gold

Death of Fiat Currencies and the rise of Commodity Currencies

The Storehouse – A Natural Inflation Hedge

Its important to understand that the Storehouse vision addresses the issue of inflation (even hyper inflation) and hedges against it using the concept of local currencies, backed by physical tangible goods, but importantly – the value of people working together in community – the power of unity of resources and workforce. When this is coupled with two factors/tools: Reshoring and Insourcing goods and services, as well as creative sourcing of goods and services across Storehouse networked communities, you have a functioning economy that can thrive in the face of these and other global economic troubles, famine, and scarcity. One Storehouse “Nation” Under God, if you will.

Alternative Currencies

Breakaway Bridges of the Storehouse Vision

Inflation Prep – Part II

Last week we focused mainly on spiritual preparation as the necessary foundation:

You many never know that Jesus is all you need, until Jesus is all you have

Corrie ten Boom

Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God

Deuteronomy 8:1

If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us … But even if He does not, we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up

Daniel 3:17-18

There is no getting around these and other spiritual truths. No more than there is no effective strategy in the Lord in the absence of prayer. And sometimes that’s not only all we need, it is exactly what we need.

Do not be afraid. Stand firm and you will see the deliverance the Lord will bring you today

Exodus 14:13

Taking Action – Building and Warring

But do we stop at prayer? Of course not. We listen and obey and move out into whatever the Father is doing. Let’s listen to how David inquired of the Lord, heard the word and stepped out into battle, but in an unusual way:

Once more the Philistines came up and spread out in the Valley of Rephaim; so David inquired of the Lord, and he answered, “Do not go straight up, but circle around behind them and attack them in front of the poplar trees. As soon as you hear the sound of marching in the tops of the poplar trees, move quickly, because that will mean the Lord has gone out in front of you to strike the Philistine army.” So David did as the Lord commanded him, and he struck down the Philistines all the way from Gibeon to Gezer

2 Samuel 5:22-25

We don’t prepare out of fear, we prepare out of listening and obeying by FAITH

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of the Lord

Romans 10:17

Faith without deeds is dead

James 2:17

Faith into Action

  • Noah built an Ark over 120 years
  • Joseph built Storehouses and collected grain throughout Egypt for seven years, then masterfully administered their release over the next 7 years.
  • Joshua took the promised land by warfare
  • David conquered the Jebusites to take Jerusalem
  • Moses confronted Pharaoh
  • Nehemiah rebuilt the wall
  • Zerubbabel rebuilt the Temple

Local Community / Currency / Banking / Agricultural Prep

Berkshire Farm Preserve Note.png
Berkshire Farm Preserve Note
Miraculous sized carrots in Guatemala – the size of arms!!
Great Barrington Deli Dollars

Interesting Article on the death of fiat currency and the rise of commodity currencies:

Ruble goes Gold:

Breakaway Bridges of the Storehouse Vision