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Roundtable Discussion

Debt vs. Equity – or is there a better way?

What does the bible have to say about Debt?
  • the borrower is a slave to the lender – Proverbs 22:7
  • you are to be the lender, not the borrower
  • freely lend to your brother who ask to borrow from you
  • lend to your enemy – Luke 6:34
  • don’t expect to be repaid by those you have lent to – Luke 6:35
  • Paul said “Owe no one anything” – Romans 13:8
What does the bible have to say about Equity? (partnerships)
  • Do not yoke yourselves with unbelievers – 2 Cor 6:14
  • What does Christ have to do with Belile? – 2 Cor 6:15
  • do not profit from the poor – Ezekiel 18:13
  • every seventh year rest the land, vinyard, olive grove and let the poor take whatever comes from it that year, then also the animals – Exodus 23:11
  • “Be careful with you for partnerships with” – prophetic word I received in 2005

We biblically examine :


  • prohibition on charging interest to the needy – Exodus 22:25
  • prohibition on charging interest to fellow Israelites – Deuteronomy 23:19
  • prohibition in the early church from charging ANY interest at all
  • Did Christ teach on interest? Yes – he mentioned interest in the parable of the talents Matt 25:27 “interest with the bankers”, yet says in beatitudes says do not expect anything in return from even your enemy Luke 6:34-35. So what did he mean?
  • biblical usury – is the prohibition on high interest or any interest?
  • modern day interest in our present day Fed banking system


  • do not require a pledge of essentials – Exodus 22:25-27
  • return the pledge – Ezekiel 18:7
  • do not oppress anyone- Ezekiel 18:7
  • “And if he cries to me, I will hear, for I am compassionate” Exodus 22:27

Debt forgiveness

  • The “Shmita” debt forgiveness cycle – forgive every seventh year – Deut 15:1
  • even if the loan was made in the sixth year, don’t be like that! – Deut 15:9
  • The “Jubilee” returning of lands and freeing of slaves – Lev 25:8-12

“I choose other”
The New Breed of Investment and Capital Structure

Other critical issues:

The responsibility of the borrower
  • Repay what you borrow
The responsibility of the lender
  • Freely lend – Leviticus 25:35-36
  • Don’t oppress the borrower
  • Forgive debts every 7 years
  • Return mortgaged lands to family every 7×7 years
The principal behind asymmetrical giving and receiving
  • God is the mediator, not man
  • God is the judge, not man
  • We don’t give to get, lend to get, help to get
  • We let God recompense us, if the person we lend to cannot repay
  • Not a quid-pro-quo
Business transactions between two parties, neither of which is disadvantaged
  • Grace for each side to give up something to the other
  • Don’t have to “take what’s yours”
  • Don’t view as fixed pie
  • Anyone willing to let the other have the bigger portion will be rewarded by the Lord
  • Business is an opportunity to give/help others before it is an opportunity to profit

Discussion Questions / Subtopics :

  1. Why is what Chuck Pierce says relevant?
  1. If the USA continues down the track it’s headed and does not turn back to God, we will “look like China” by 2026.
  1. Chuck spoke of times ahead here in the USA where Christians are going to have to relearn how to multiply food and resources, trusting heaven for miraculous intervention. This is what we refer to as the “electric” side of the “hybrid power” of the New Breed of Business. Very different from “money power”. Chuck mentioned 3 laws related to this:
  • the law of use
  • the law of multiplication
  • the law of reciprocity
  1. “…we’re a very sophisticated society. But some way another we’re about to get desperate enough to act a little wilder”


  • New Wineskin of Church
  • Bold and courageous – Joshua 1:5
  • People of God doing exploits – Daniel 11:32
  • Raise the dead, heal the sick, give sight to the blind
  1. “We can’t be muzzled”
  1. “We can’t be religious in this era”
  • form of Godliness but no power – 2 Tim 3:5
  1. “It is a war season”
  • “Keys of Covenant”
  1. “We’re pulling out the book again” (rediscover the Word of God)
  • Old Testament morals and ethics in business practices
  • Sermon on the Mount

Chuck Pierce – Four Resets USA

New Breed of Business Rountable Discussion

Reset Conference – Oasis Church, Middletown, OH – October 8th, 2020


[starts 1:36:45 in video]

Put your hand on someone and loose these three words:

  • Faith
  • Confidence
  • Awakening

Now, I want before we’re seated – I believe this gathering is this important. I don’t believe without Dutch Sheets Ministries stepping out in faith to gather us here and the hosting place of Oasis [Church] hosting us, that we could really see the pivot in this nation that we need to see. Let’s give a shout for these ministries.

Now we always want to thank Judah for going first. Let’s thank God for this [worship] team. Now bless someone. Stay socially distant and sit down.

This is a very interesting time that we’re living, in that we’re living in and I do want to encourage you during this time. Charisma asked me to write a book called the Passover Prophecies. And the reason that book is important for us is because we’re in an era of Passover. Not just one year, but we’re going to have to understand passing over and keep passing over. Now I want you to tell someone that we’ve got to keep passing over.

Time to Reset

I believe the Lord is training us in many ways right now. I believe that angelic hosts are visiting us and I believe we are in a moment of time when you hear the word Reset you think really: Time. That’s what – that’s the first thing you think. You think, well I need to reset my watch I need to reset my alarm. Look at somebody and say, “We need to reset our alarms”. And one of the things that I thought about when I usually have a lot of – a few power points to help us see things. But, what I thought about when I was thinking about this gathering is the phrase “Behold I do a new thing…” and that spoke Reset to me. And with that reset the whole context of that prophecy by Isaiah was this: the nation will go into captivity and yet in the midst of their captivity I already have a plan to do a new thing.

America has a Destiny like Israel

I believe we are at that place where God is saying: “I am activating my plan to do a new thing in America.” Let’s thank God for that. And really what He was saying to Israel was this – you have a destiny that I’m not going to let you let go of. And I really believe that’s what this reset meeting is about. I believe there’s a destiny that has tried to be pried out of God’s people’s hands in this Nation, and the Lord’s saying: “I have a plan and it’s more important for me that your destiny – the destiny of America come forth in this hour.” It is even more than you know in this nation and in this place that we’re in.

We are in a new era that new era began last Rosh Hashanah, not this the one we’ve just participated in. We’re in the Feast of Tabernacles. Right now this could not be a better timed gathering for our Nation than right at this moment. God had to have a people that would come together and tabernacle on behalf of a Nation and I know He is tabernacling with us here for a moment.

I really was beyond, being able to get up here and say anything because I felt the presence of our Lord so strong and His spirit so strong in our midst. This new era represents coming back in a divine return. It’s an era of divine return. We’re coming back face to face with the Lord.

That’s actually what the word “Pey” means in Hebrew. We’re coming “face to face”. But it also means what Dutch said when he was up here. It means you have a voice filled with My Breath. And if ever in a decade your voice must be heard it is now, saith the Lord.

And when [Dutch] said: “I will not be muzzled”, I cannot think of one person that I more honor and respect for the voice that he carries for this Nation. We cannot be muzzled this decade. We have to know this decade is about our mouth. This era is about our mouth. It’s about the voice that comes out of your house. Put your hand right here [points to chest]. It is about the voice that comes out of your house. Where He dwells, we must speak up.

We can’t be religious this era. We’ve got to say what we need to say, when we need to say it. Now, most people that know me know I stay in trouble most of the time doing that, but like never before we have to do this. And if we don’t…

We have now entered – we are now celebrating over the new year ahead, tonight. See we’re celebrating the triumph of what we will look like. You are a prophetic people. You’re not celebrating what’s just happening tonight. You are already celebrating what will be, this entire year. And this entire year is about Father realigning us. It’s about Father coming down. It’s about us becoming friend or foe. Let’s make a decree right now: “Lord, we want to be your friend in this Nation.”

War Season

It is a war season. I reminded Dutch of when we were in Chattanooga [TN] on October 8th, 2018. And the Spirit of God fell on us and the Lord began to prophesy: “You are headed into a swamp”. And He said for the next two years and four months this swamp will get so deep in this nation, and so much entanglement in this nation will come. He said it will look like a civil war by the second year as you enter in. I mean this is recorded. You can go and listen to it.

And [Dutch] said “What will this look like?” And I said, “Well I don’t know.” I know I walked through a swamp once. And I know what that looked like as I saw [water] moccasins fall down. And I saw all sorts of creatures and I wondered if I would make it through the swamp.

But it – we are living in probably the most tumultuous times that we have known. And yet we’re a very sophisticated society. But some way another we’re about to get desperate enough to act a little wilder than we’ve ever acted. Meetings like this are very key for us if you want a picture of what this year looks like. It looks like the Lion of the Tribe of Judah facing off the dragon that you read about in Revelations chapter 2. And right in the middle of it is you.

Therefore, your voice is needed to tip the balance of what that war looks like. And that’s every one of us in this room. You cannot be afraid of the conflicts ahead. Even what I saw before Jane got up here and prophesied I felt that an angel come down. I turned around to look to see him standing behind us and above us and I saw the words that are ahead. We have seen nations give themselves over and yet within those nations we’re crying out for those remnants to rise up again.

This nation has not yet given itself over. We have a strong remnant that is now rising up and we have to be a strong remnant with confidence because of what is ahead.

And this is what I want to leave you with. I see new keys falling down. Now Dutch is our key filling us up with his Isaiah 22:22. But I see keys to the Kingdom falling down. Keys for now. Weapons for now. Weapons for us to unlock mysteries and revelations and understandings that we’ve never unlocked. I see keys of covenant coming down. I see keys of confidence coming down. We must be a confident people. That is the Old Testament word for faith.

Four Resets

And then when we talk about reset. I see four major reset areas that are happening.

One – Worship Prophetic

The first is a worship prophetic reset and it looks like this: it looks like when Abraham took Isaac up to Mount Moriah. And it really looks like this. Not what we have seen. It looks like Isaac having to understand the power of submission and laying on that altar in a way that he could only trust what the generation before him was saying.

Two – Generations

I see a reset this year between the generations. I see there must be a generation arise that say we believe in what we’re hearing we believe in what we’re hearing.

Just think if Isaac had kicked against that worship altar? See he wasn’t a kid – he was 38 years old. And without him fully submitting to the prophetic word that his forefather carried, he could not receive what was necessary for him to carry. That must happen this year. It must happen starting now.

And then I see a reset that is so key. And I call it: “The second generation Jezebel overthrow.” I come from a family that had lots going forward and many blessings. And I saw the enemy enter into that family and I will say this it took a second generation to overthrow the disaster of the generation before it. And we’re still warring for the next generation to overthrow it.

And it looks like Athaliah. See, God promised David he would always have someone on his throne to rule from heaven. To be aligned with Him.

What we’re doing here tonight is reseeding in this nation the Tabernacle of David again. The only time that that did not occur was seven years when Athaliah removed everybody. This was after Jezebel. It was worse than Jezebel. She removed. And her strategy was to get rid of David’s throne and any seed that could carry it forth. The Lord says, “Starting now we are in a war to see that throne for the seed” that God intends to rule this land be repositioned.

Three – Kingdom Justice

The third reset I see is this: it’s a reset for the re-establishment of Kingdom justice. And it looks like a combination of David and Hezekiah and Josiah realigning. Each one carried a certain portion hat had to come in place so something got overthrown so the next one could better get in place. Hezekiah had to do Passover twice to overthrow it. Josiah had to pull the book out again. I’d agree we’re pulling the book out again. And we’re going to have to speak it. We’re going to have to speak it. It’s a plumb line to realign us into the atmosphere.

Four – Economic


And then the fourth reset I see is an economic reset.

See I have watched and been involved in both China and Russia since the early 80s. Therefore I know economic structures and I have seen them give over to an economic structure that is filled with evil materialistic selfishness.

America was meant to be the most giving nation in the earth. America was meant to prosper and to create a blessing throughout the earth.

This economic reset has been necessary to refocus us in on realigning us with the God of provision and because of that we are in probably one of the most incredible times in our history. We’re probably not even aware fully of the economic ramifications that are looming to control us and yet…

I decree right now – just as Yeshua would decree – we are now resetting an economic system.

You say what does that look like?

It’s what looked like at the time where He reset his authority to move forward. John had his head cut off that was the last season. And the first thing the Lord taught his disciples after John’s head was cut off was – we’ve got a following now going on.

People are following and they turned to Him and they said you need to tell them to go home. I’m here to tell you we can’t go home. If ever we must gain momentum and follow, it is now.

And you know what? He looked at his disciples and said – He said these people are going to fall out on us. They’re going to die on us if you don’t – if they don’t go home and eat. They can come back and hear you some other time.

And He said you know what? You’re not sending them home. You’re going to feed them. And let me teach you something about the law of use, and the law of multiplication, and the law of reciprocity. I am here to tell you. And then all of a sudden they found a small handful that a lunch that a young boy had and it fed and fed and fed and they kept moving forward.

I want you to decree right now that provision is coming to keep us moving forward.

Listen there’s some people out there that have deep pockets. Decree their pockets start emptying up. Decree that things start moving forward. This decree that we have the provision to create a movement like this and keep it moving forward.

Matter of fact, I think right now we need to be able to give and worship. I want you to stop right now and say: Lord, there is a provision for this movement that I am giving into right now. You make your check out – you give on the web out there. If you’ve ever given you need to give now and say we are giving in to the pivot movement that will save a nation and restore a harvest movement from this land, How it was meant to be sent forth? I don’t know of anybody that I would give more into than Dutch Sheets Ministries.

And I right now – this is you – always bring an offering during Feast of Tabernacles. You bring a feast offering and do you know what it’s called? It’s a memorial offering that God remembers until this time next year. Every time you need, He will remember this offering and some way your need will be met.

See this reset is linked with us seeing into a dimension that we’ve never seen into before. It’s linked with us not looking at what we’ve got but what is out there that God is saying: ”I want you to get. I want you to bring in. I want you to hold it up. I want you to break it open. I want you to bring it to Me. I have got ways to multiply.” What you do right now – that will sustain you into the future.


I have watched the Lord do this. He promised me this when I was eight [years old]. That He would restore what had been lost in our family. I have watched Him over 50 years almost repeat day after day and do that. He has ways beyond us and right now.

He’s activating a reset of our economic way of thinking

And I want us to do this. I want us to stand up. I want us to hold this Tabernacle offering up. I want Jeremy to lead us. I want us to wave it before the Lord. That’s what they would do they would bring their tabernacle offering. And they would bring it on behalf of a nation.

I don’t know of another gathering going on like this right now this weekend. I watched last week at the beginning of it where Washington was being covered and people crying out. This is a time we must shift into this divine return and reset. Say it: divine return. Say: divine reset.

You need to decree over your harvest – your storehouse – a divine reset. Decree it right now. Decree it. Speak into that gift. If you don’t have a gift, get some. Get something from somebody. You need to say: “This is a divine moment to reset our future.” Reset our provisions. See, the reset Abraham did? God came down as Jehovah Jireh and said: “Let me show you your provision.” At the end Yeshua did the same thing. He said let me show you your provision and how to multiply. Just wave it before the Lord. Let’s worship with it.

[end of segment 2:01:30 in video]

Discussion Subject: The Power of Giving

Economy of Giving and Receiving (vs. capitalism and socialism)

Freely you have received, freely you shall give. Matt 10:8
What does this scripture mean?

Compassion, generosity and the joy of giving

  • “It is better to give than receive” – Acts 20:35
  • “Don’t let your left hand know what you right is doing” – Matt 6:3
  • Don’t give to those who are rich – James 2; Prov 22:16
  • Don’t give to be seen by others – Matt 6:2
  • Give in secret – the Father will reward you openly – Matt 6:4
  • Self-interest v. Father’s interest – what is the Father doing?
  • Principle of sowing and reaping
  • “If you have a need sow a seed” the same as “giving to get”?
  • Death and multiplication – Unless a seed falls to the ground and dies – Matt 12:24-
  • Leave behind – receiving 100 fold – Mark 10:30
  • The power of sacrificial giving – the widow’s mite – Mark 12:41-44
  • The power of multiplication
  • The power of being asymmetrical and non-reciprocal giving
  • When we let go and let God, he can provide the increase
  • cast your bread on many waters – Eccl 11
  • Lending without interest
  • Lending without being expected to be repaid
  • Giving as investing
  • give and it shall be given
  • windows of heaven
  • give and you will have treasure in heaven – matt 6:19
  • Give the unrighteous mammon and make friends who welcome you in heaven – Luke 16:9

Round Table Discussion


by Lana Vawser Ministries
This week I had a vision and I saw many in the body of Christ looking through what looked like ‘viewfinders’. These viewfinders looked like ones children use and you push the lever on the side and what you see changes. I watched as the enemy was prowling through the body of Christ and he was coming against many that were feeling defeated, tired, and downtrodden and they felt like they were losing their ‘fight’. I saw the enemy come slithering up alongside them and he began to press the lever and the view would change. The picture they were seeing was then not the accurate one. I then heard the Lord say “Pray in the spirit and pray the Word for the enemy is attempting to change your view.”

As God’s people prayed in the spirit and prayed the Word of God I saw the kids viewfinders turn to telescopes. The Lord was speaking about an upgrade of sight and prophetic vision of what is to come. In the praying in the spirit and praying the Word was a covering and shelter upon them to stop the enemy coming and changing the scene.

I heard the Lord say “The enemy is tampering with vision. It is very important right now to be asking for wisdom (James 1:5) and discernment for the enemy is coming against many of My people in such ‘sly’ ways to ‘change the vision’ and ‘change the scene’. There is an unprecedented upgrade in heavenly wisdom, insight, and understanding and the enemy is attempting to ‘change the scene’, to cause My people to despair, to cause My people to feel hopeless, discouraged, and feel weighed down.

For this is the hour that I am awakening My people to the POWER of My PROPHETIC VOICE. This Is the hour where I am awakening My people to My power that they walk in when they are walking in heavenly vision, wisdom, and strategy. The enemy is working hard to bring confusion and heaviness against My people and cause such deep despair that they lose hope in the vision I have given them. But I say unto you My people, pray in the Spirit and pray My Word and watch the enemy flee. The enemy is attempting to lull you back to sleep with deceptive scenes that are not from Me and are opposite to the Rhema words that I am speaking into your life for your life, for your cities and nations. You MUST remain awake and diligent and vigilant in praying in the Spirit and praying My Word.”


The Lord showed me that many that are being assaulted by this constant assault from the enemy ‘changing the scenery’ through his lies, his confusion, his deception to keep the Church asleep, without a voice, and hidden in the shadows. The Lord showed me that the enemy is wanting the people of God walking around confused and living reactionary and on the defense rather than the offense.

I had a vision and the Lord began to show me that this is such a significant time right now, especially leading up to Rosh Hashanah. There are scrolls from heaven that the Lord Is releasing that contain insight, revelatory understanding, and wisdom for the new Hebrew Year and this era that contains such strategy and specifics of the Lord’s intentions that as God’s people receive, embrace and obey what is written on these scrolls that there will be significant shifting of landscapes as we know it, and the revelation contained within these scrolls is so deep, the mysteries of God (Daniel 2:22) so profound that engaging with the Holy Spirit in ‘eating’ these scrolls will bring incredible transformation to God’s people. I watched as boldness filled God’s people in the revelation of what the Lord had spoken and written upon the scrolls. I watched as God’s people were full of vision, clarity, and insight. I watched as the fear that had muzzled them and the haze of confusion suddenly broke off and a conviction of the word of the Lord burned deeply within them.

The Lord spoke again “What is contained on many of these scrolls is for NATIONS. As these scrolls are received, as they pray, intercede, and decree what I have written on these scrolls, and as they release and obey the strategy I am releasing in My wisdom, it will change the TERRAIN of NATIONS.” The sense then surrounded me SO strongly of Habakkuk 2:14 “For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.” (ESV)


The Lord showed me that these scrolls will EXPOSE and CHALLENGE areas of unbelief in hearts. There is an invitation contained within these scrolls to partner with heavenly wisdom and heavenly VISION. In the exposing and challenging areas of unbelief in the heart, repent and align yourself with what the Lord is speaking and what He is revealing, will ignite new levels of faith in God’s people and the invitation will be weightier than it has been to ‘live from your seat’ (Ephesians 2:6). It is IMPERATIVE to embrace and align with what the Lord reveals on these scrolls. It is time for the body of Christ to align in greater ways with the Word of God, His wisdom and what He is speaking (Matthew 4:4)

The Lord is going to demonstrate the POWER of His prophetic voice in this hour and He is looking for those who are not living on the ground and living in the natural realm, He is looking for those who are living from their seat and will take Him at His Word no matter what it looks like or what the cost. The Lord wants all to receive these scrolls He is releasing in this new era, but pride, opinion, presumption, and assumption, will hinder many from receiving these scrolls. It those that are walking in humility, purity, tenderness of heart towards the Lord, truly friends of God that are going to be the ones that will carry and operate in the wisdom contained on these scrolls.

The enemy is fighting many hard right now to ‘confuse’ vision and change the ‘view’ because there is a significant increase of heavenly vision, wisdom, and clarity upon God’s people that are positioned, asking, and waiting for it. (Proverbs 8:34-35 TPT) Keep praying in the Spirit and pray His Word and watch the enemy flee

Discussion: The future of Crypto Currency and its potential role in Kingdom Finance

Crypto currency is a specific form of digital currency. It has interesting attributes, such as block-chain technology, a decentralized and distributed ledger, its “mining” system of replicating the ledger. It is also part of what is newly being termed as DeFi, or “Decentralized Finance” (as opposed to traditional banking centralized systems which are by design for data integrity – think about keeping accurate, real-time bank balances).

If you want to take a deeper dive on some of this stuff, you can find a recent article in Forbes here:

Forbes Crypto Trends Article August 31, 2020

These Goldman Sachs research slides on Crypto are good background:

Here is a recent Crypto / DeFi (Decentralized Finance) investment banking “FinTech” conference (thanks to Joel Frazier for referring):

DeFi banking conference YouTube playlist 14 videos

Some interesting sub-subjects within that playlist:

Bitcoin first mass “Crypto”

Bitcoin annotated price chart, Goldman Sachs

Pros of Crypto

  • Outside of the banking regulation regime and Federal Reserve
  • Hard to cheat due to the transparency of the distributed ledger
  • Some early adoption being accepting as currency and alternative to settlement / payment in the central bank currencies and systems
  • Technology allows for trusted exchange of value online (digitally)
  • Anonymous

Cons of Crypto

  • Bitcoin and other early adopters have history of criminal activity driving usage and price. Drugs. Prostitution / Human Trafficking. Porn.
  • Fiat currency – nothing of substance or value back cryptos
  • Bubble currency – crypto has a large draw to many speculators because of a “gold rush” mentality. It is just going to go higher, so by low and sell high! This creates price instability and is a actually a big negative as a currency people can depend on, say to fight inflation and product price instability
  • Adoption hurdles for real world use – most transactions still not Crypto enabled

Block Chain compared with Crypto

  • What is block-chain technology and why should I care?
  • Crypto uses block-chain technology, but Crypto not its only applicability
  • Block chain is more the core technology behind Crypto – i.e., distributed data and transparency and availability of public record
  • Lessons learned from Bitcoin and Ethereum

Regulation and Federal Reserve

The Federal Reserve is studying crypto and digital currency for central bank use, here is their recent talk on the subject, including their collaboration in the Boston Fed and MIT (thanks to Merrick Fin for discussion idea):

August 13, 2020 Fed Speech

  • How might the Fed use digital currency in days ahead?
  • What does the regulators and the Federal Reserve think of Crypto?
  • How might the Fed adopt a digital currency pf their own in the future?
  • How could a cashless society benefit, hinder or even control US citizens? God’s people?
  • What are the alternatives?

Kingdom Applicability of Digital Currency, DeFi, Block-chain, and/or Crypto:

  • Technologies could be utilized to create an “off-the-grid” alternative away from dependence on the Federal Reserve banking system
  • Resources could not be reclaimed by regulators through a “bail-in”
  • Could be utilized to help create alternative currency that was not tied solely to USD, or to the USD at all
  • Could be combined with local storehouses concept to create local resource pools that back a digital currency
  • Such asset-backing will stabilize the value of any alternative currency
  • A “New Breed” of Kingdom culture, education and discipleship in the area of commerce / finance would need be part
  • Kingdom elders in a region can provide governance aspect, even judiciary aspect
  • Distributed / decentralized aspect fits to the broader Kingdom networks across geographies, affinity groups
  • Analogy of Christians going on pilgrimage to the Holy Land during the crusades and how they could put their money “on deposit” with the Knights Templar who were a Catholic military order who established the first modern era banking concepts across geographies

Related Chuck Pierce Dream Excerpt

I realized that I needed to update my wife, Pam, on my location and what I was doing. I went to use my cell phone to call her but knew it was not the proper way to communicate. It’s not that I couldn’t use my cell phone—I just knew that by using it, I would thwart the business that we had in the port. In other words, the line was not secure.

By this time, I was in a lounge at the port. I noticed a land-line. I unplugged the phone and the line from the wall and brought it into a glass business center setting. I tried to use the landline but couldn’t get through and realized I needed a certain code to access an outside line. So I couldn’t use the landline to connect with my wife. I knew I could figure out the code but also realized that was not the right mode of communication in this case.

The barge captain came into the lounge and asked if I was trying to use the phone. I said yes. He said, “Using the landline will cost you an exorbitant rate, and you need a code. Let me bring you another device for communication.” (I had the impression that someone would trace a landline call to me because of how large the bill would be.)

The captain returned with a new hidden device. This was an odd pay phone looking thing about the size of a watch box. I realized that to activate the phone and make a successful connection, a portion of the device had to catch a coin from our current US dollar economy. Once the device was activated, there was a money clip—like wallet/phone that I could use to make my call. This portion of the device, however, required some sort of new currency to activate and operate the device in order to have successful communication.

This currency was like crypto-currency, but it was something else—and I knew I didn’t have the proper currency to operate the device and make my connection. Only this new currency could operate the device, and some way or another the currency had a chip in it that would cause the device to work.

Chuck Pierce May 6th, 2020 dream excerpt from “Passover Prophecies”

Chuck’s interpretive excerpts

  • Somehow gold is key in the new currency
  • Israel is a key
  • Israel can help us realign our communication and commerce
  • Now we must realign with Israel for trade. When Israel was maturing as a modern nation, many other nations resisted trading and working with Israel. It had to learn creatively how to grow, produce, and use its own food and to develop many other innovative products, devices, and systems. This will be similar for our communication in the future. Israel will help develop ways for us to communicate so our trade system will flourish.

Possible Interpretative Keys

  • Phone represents communication
  • Phone can also represent prayer or prayer networks
  • Landline – old tech banking (Fed Reserve USD)
  • Exorbitant rate -> hyperinflation of old system?
  • Currency represents means of exchange
  • Currency also could represent God’s means of exchange through favor / access through the phone device
  • Pam, Chuck’s wife, could represent the Church and prayer networks
  • Barge captain liken to Jesus
  • There seems to be need for new ideas, wisdom / shrewdness in all of this
  • Jesus has the keys / blueprint for “the device”
  • Money clip / new phone device could be related to Fintech style “App” on a phone (mobile device)
  • Like crypto, but yet not crypto could be a type of digital currency that is non-USD based with the tech of crypto (block chain), but not BitCoin or Ether or look-alike fiat speculative currency
  • Chip in it – technology based – could include embedded chips like credit cards now have to help securely identify
  • Somehow gold is key in the new currency – instead of a digital currency based on USD, it could be based on gold and/or basket of value that includes gold (silver, copper, platinum, palladium, other currencies, grain, water, etc.)
  • Catch a coin from our current US dollar economy – built inside the US governance, law and economy and includes ability to transfer USD into new currency
  • New Hidden Device – hidden from view of enemy, new in that it is newfangled tech and idea
  • Israel is a key – integrated with Israel economy / trade / currency / communication somehow – which has been supernaturally blessed by God since 1948 in many ways

Discussion: Timing of economic troubles and other biblical prophecy

… from Issachar, men who understood the times and knew what Israel should do

1 Chronicles 12:32

We know in part, we see [prophetically] in part…

1 Corinthians 13:9

Timing is important. We plan our days around it. We go to work at a certain time. The kids go to school at a certain time. In Ecclesiastes 3, we are told there is a time and season for everything. So as believers, timing and planning are important, yet we live by faith, not by site (2 Cor 5:7). Of course the future is not known, but the Word of God can guide us.

Teaching point: In the prophetic, timing is often the hardest part to get right in understanding or interpreting a prophetic word from the Bible or otherwise. In the prophetic, we are taught that when timing is put on a prophetic word, that prophecy will be known to be true or false by its declared timing (read Jeremiah 28:10-17).

Economic Timing

  • When will the USD collapse?
  • When will the Federal Reserve banking system fail?
  • When will the markets crash?

Is the US financial economic system of Fed Reserve capitalism the Harlot Babylon of Revelation 18?

Will China replace America as the lead economic power and is it the final Babylonian system discussed in Revelation 18?

What is the prophetic parallel of Egypt and Israel is to USA and the Church?

What is the meaning of 400 years of slavery of the Church … 1620 – 2020?

Premise: USA and its financial system have been under multi-wave financial judgment liken to Egypt’s seven-fold judgment of Ezekiel 29-32, which was a 40 year prophecy.

Assumption: We are in perhaps the 3rd wave of this judgment with CV19 – 9/11 and the 2008 financial crisis being the first two waves. If we are in a seven wave type judgment, we could be talking another 4 waves over 20 years before the fullness of the humbling transpires. Potential dateline 2000-2040.

Related: The Pilgrims landed in 1620. Signed the Mayflower Compact 11-11-1620. This year is the 400th year celebration. If our economic system is liken to Egypt and its system of slavery, are we in the same window of time God dealing with ending slavery of the Israelites (economic slavery of the church)?

Data Point: Chuck Pierce in 2012 on 40 year prophecy of the rise of China (1986-2026):
“By 2026, the Chinese could actually rule the world and Russia would begin to submit to their leading.”

Question: Is the judgment currently on the USA right now, the same judgment of the symbolic economic Harlot Babylon of Revelation 18? If so, could China represent part of the beast that takes down the Harlot (Rev 17:16)? If not, China’s global economic system may take over as the final form of economic Harlot that is judged as per Revelation 18, with the USA having been humbled prior to this.

Timing of the Lord’s Return and the restoration of Israel

So how does all of this fit into the timing of the Lord’s return – which we know is certain – yet many have falsely prophesied that it would have already happened? Where does the rapture fit into everything? So many questions !?!

  • When will the Lord return?
  • Are we in the midnight hour? (parable of the 10 virgins Matt 25)
  • When will the man of perdition be revealed (2 Thes 2:3)?
  • When will the economic system of the mark of the beast Rev 13:18 come to pass?
  • Who are the two witnesses of Rev 11? And when will they be in play?
  • Is Macron the anti-Christ and Pope Francis the false prophet?
  • When will 2/3 of Israel die (Zech 13:8)?
  • Is the War of God and Magog (Ez 38-39) the same as the battle of Armeggedon (Rev 19)? When will they occur?
  • Will the church be raptured before Christ’s return, and if so, what about the Jewish remnant and the one new man?
  • What does the man-child prophecy of Rev 12 mean? The timing?

Teaching point: Let us remain childlike in our faith, look to the Lord for wisdom and remain flexible, teachable and humble as clay under the potter’s hands. Let us “be ready in season and of season” 2 Tim 4:2. Let us build now toward the future of forever, as “the bride without spot or wrinkle”. Noah built the ark over the course of 120 years. He did not know when the flood would come, but he was ready. He was not in sin. But let not our readiness be confused with presumption, either cutting corners because we are premature, burying our talents thinking time is short instead of planting and reaping in the Kingdom (a form of the wicked servant Matt 25:25), or in sin because we think He is forever delaying His return (Matt 24:45-51) and God’s grace allows such presumptive sin.

Key Scriptures regarding the Lord’s timing

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many anti-Christs have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

1 John 2:18

When you see all these things, know that it is near – at the doors. This generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place

Matthew 24:33-34

But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

Matthew 24:36-44

But concerning the times and the seasons, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape… let us be awake and sober… putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. Therefore encourage one another and build each other up…

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or the seasons the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.

Acts 1:6-8

When it is evening you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red’; and in the morning, ‘It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times.”

Matthew 16:2-4

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

Bob Jones on Timing

What is the Lord doing? I brought a 100 year prophesy for a long time, let’s look at it. The 1950’s reveal the power of God. William Branham, Oral Roberts, AA Allen. The 1960’s reveal the Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit invaded the denominations. The 1970’s reveal the great teachers of God and they began to raise up. The 1980’s reveal the prophets of God. The 1990’s reveal the government of God. The 2000 would reveal the glory of God. You haven’t seen anything. Wait till you see the next two years! The 2010 would reveal the faith of God. It’s not have the faith “in” God, it is to have the faith “of” God. And it’s going to be those that have that earring in and hear what God is saying. And what you’ll do, you’ll proclaim it. And you’ll bring it into being. The 2020’s reveal the rest of God. To where you can rest from your labors and God will work His work through you in your rest and in your peace. The 2030’s will reveal the family of God. 2040’s will reveal the kingdom of God. 2050’s will reveal the sons and daughters of God. I only saw til 2060 and the church was still here and it wasn’t defeated by any means. It had really grown and looked a lot like Christ. So if you’ve got short range plans, make long range plans

Bob Jones 5/13/2008 on GodTV

Version of it here from 2009:

Bob Jones Vision of the End-times Church:

Notes from video:

  • Get ready for the glorious end-time church. “And I don’t know how long it will be…”
  • Bob saw 50 years, 100 years from now people are still getting saved.
  • Rev 2:1-7 Church in Ephesus – if you have lost your first love and love for people… Quit it. Get on your face. Start to love God and people again.
  • “Sometimes you can become so busy working for Him. You get so ambitious building yourself a church, not any of you are going to build a church. God is going to build His church”
  • “Spend more time making love to the Lord than I would working for Him”
  • Intimacy with the Lord is the key
  • “If the Holy Spirit gave you understanding of the stock market, you would own the stock market in 5 days”

Bob Jones: 1 Billion souls prophecy and its timing:

Mike Bickle on Timing

Knowing the generation, but not the day or the hour

The reason I say that is because there’s a bit of confusion in the Body of Christ, because people mix up the fact that we can’t know the day and the hour. They use that to say that we shouldn’t know the season or the generation. Now you can’t know it unless you’re living in it. So it’s a bit of a tension, because how do you know if you’re living in it? But Jesus says if you’re living in it you need to know that. So He by design causes us to come into agreement with the Word and the Spirit so that we know by faith as we see the evidence in the Word and as it’s manifest in society by the working of the Spirit.

Mike Bickle from Knowing The Times notes

Mike Bickle “Knowing The Times” PDF notes:

Outstanding End-Times Resources from Mike Bickle:

the following is an excerpt from Chuck Pierce’s new book, The Passover Prophecies. It is a key dream Chuck had May 6th, 2020 to help understand future global trade, communication, currency and economy.


Like Egypt at the first Passover, manpower and domination of resources are key to recognize. This will be a pattern for the decade ahead—the ‘pey’ decade. I believe at Passover 2020 our eyes have been opened. World trade power is in a chess match. Trade is interesting. Lucifer was cast from heaven because of his iniquity of trading. In other words, Lucifer was looking for ways to gain power through negotiation and deal making. He is still doing that today. Fellow watchmen, if we don’t understand the warfare over trade systems and how to enter the kingdom of God, we will never see the transference of wealth for the latter-day harvest. Therefore, to understand Satan’s schemes, we must watch trading patterns carefully. China has ways to pull strings and gain inroads to become the major economic influencer in the world!

Because we are in an economic war, we will see great conflict between China and America in days ahead. There will be much discussion over who or what truly is the root cause behind this Coronavirus.

But the message of this book—and the more critical question of our time—is not in regard to the plague—like invasion of this pandemic. Rather, it is about God realigning power structures both in the earth and in the spirit.


On May 6, 2020, as this book was about to go to press, I had a dream that I felt compelled to share.

In the dream I was steering a shipping barge and being used to direct it to its new position in a port. I did a satisfactory job with this first barge that I was helping to dock. (I actually think this first ship represented the ways God led our team to facilitate intercessory prayer efforts within our spheres during President Trump’s first term in office.)

However, the timing of the dream then changed. I was now required to dock a second barge in a different port, but this docking job was much trickier and difficult to accomplish. I immediately knew a way to get this barge into port was the use of mirrors. When I docked the first barge, I had misinterpreted several reflections that had caused me problems. On the mirrors that I was using now, there were key reflections of other nations that were trading in the port. I had to maneuver around and past them to get the boat into position. Once I interpreted what other nations were trading in this new port, I used those dynamics to get the barge positioned.

I had to get the barge though a narrow entryway that was half the size of the barge, I could do this only if I understood how to use the mirrors that were available to me and that I could attach to the barge.

When using mirrors, you see a reversed image, so if you don’t interpret the image correctly, your movements are impeded. In my dream there was no way to maneuver the barge successfully through the port to its docking position without the use of mirrors.

I realized that I needed to update my wife, Pam, on my location and what I was doing. I went to use my cell phone to call her but knew it was not the proper way to communicate. It’s not that I couldn’t use my cell phone—I just knew that by using it, I would thwart the business that we had in the port. In other words, the line was not secure.

By this time, I was in a lounge at the port. I noticed a land-line. I unplugged the phone and the line from the wall and brought it into a glass business center setting. I tried to use the landline but couldn’t get through and realized I needed a certain code to access an outside line. So I couldn’t use the landline to connect with my wife. I knew I could figure out the code but also realized that was not the right mode of communication in this case.

The barge captain came into the lounge and asked if I was trying to use the phone. I said yes. He said, “Using the landline will cost you an exorbitant rate, and you need a code. Let me bring you another device for communication.” (I had the impression that someone would trace a landline call to me because of how large the bill would be.)

The captain returned with a new hidden device. This was an odd pay phone looking thing about the size of a watch box. I realized that to activate the phone and make a successful connection, a portion of the device had to catch a coin from our current US dollar economy. Once the device was activated, there was a money clip—like wallet/phone that I could use to make my call. This portion of the device, however, required some sort of new currency to activate and operate the device in order to have successful communication.

This currency was like crypto-currency, but it was something else—and I knew I didn’t have the proper currency to operate the device and make my connection. Only this new currency could operate the device, and some way or another the currency had a chip in it that would cause the device to work.

And then the dream ended.


Here are some of the things I see in the dream:

  • Know that our trade systems will be severely tested! Our trade systems need to get established in current and new ports in the days ahead in new ways. This season of trade ahead will be much more difficult than the last season.
  • Realign with key nations. In the dream I saw the reflection of many nations in the mirrors (Spain, Italy, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Great Britain, and Germany, to name a few). It was those reflections that I was using to maneuver the second barge into the port. These nations had found their way into the port.
  • We will contend with China. In my dream I knew China was controlling the overall operations of the port. As I interpret it, in the days ahead there will be great contention with China over who will dominate world trade.
  • Our communication system must change as quickly as possible. One of China’s war tactics (in terms of trade, economics, and world power) will be to lock us out of certain trade ports. The only way we will be able to become established is to maneuver through other nations and then communicate using a different type of communication system.
  • Somehow gold is key in the new currency.
  • The president could win a second term. In my dream I believe the second port represents the president’s second term in office. As I write this, I haven’t heard clearly yet from the Holy Spirit whether the president will be reelected and am seeking the Lord daily. But this dream was the first inkling in the spirit that I’ve had about a possible second term. As well, and as we touched on earlier, the ways in which we operated in the last season as a church and nation will not work in the new season. We must let go of the old. In that sense the same is true for the president. For the president to be successful in his second term, he must understand things that were not interpreted correctly in the last season. I know that if Trump doesn’t remain in office, China will take over as the dominant world power in terms of trade and economics.
  • Israel is a key. On May 6, Israel’s Supreme Court ruled that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu could form a new government, ending a seventeen—month political stalemate and preventing the country from plunging into a fourth consecutive election in just over a year. Now we must realign with Israel for trade. When Israel was maturing as a modern nation, many other nations resisted trading and working with Israel. It had to learn creatively how to grow, produce, and use its own food and to develop many other innovative products, devices, and systems. This will be similar for our communication in the future. Israel will help develop ways for us to communicate so our trade system will flourish.


Think of Daniel in exile in Babylon. He moved among—and excelled in—the powerful pagan society that was Babylonia. Daniel worshiped the God of his forefathers and went above the understanding of the Babylonian magicians—much in the same way that Moses was a channel through which God outwitted the sorcerers of Pharaoh. In the Book of Daniel, after Nebuchadnezzar’s magicians, astrologers, and sorcerers failed to interpret the king’s dream, Daniel was summoned. (See Daniel 2.)

Daniel asked the king to give him time to interpret the dream. Daniel and his companions then sought “mercies from the God of heaven concerning this secret [i.e., the dream], so that Daniel and his companions might not perish with the rest of the wise men of Babylon. Then the secret was revealed to Daniel in a night vision. So Daniel blessed the God of heaven” (Daniel 2:16—19, NKJV).

As we move forward, we must learn from Daniel. As we wait, watch, and follow the Lord’s leading on how and when to take action, it is vital that we

  • take time to accurately hear from the Lord, just as Daniel did when he asked Nebuchadnezzar for time to seek God (V. 16);
  • find like-minded believers who will press in to God as we watch and pray with them in this new season  (vv. 17-18);
  • have faith that God will meet us in our sphere of assignment and authority and that the secret will be revealed to us as the Lord chooses. This might happen through prayer, the Word, other believers, or, as in Daniel’s case, a prophetic dream or other prophetic revelation (v. 19); and, most importantly,
  • bless the God of heaven for the new revelation and season and for His goodness (v. 19).

We must be like Daniel in the cultural and spiritual Babylon in which we live. He gained such favor with the pagan king that he was able to save the lives of the magicians. (See Daniel 2:24-25.) He didn’t use the magicians’ type of access to revelation; he went above it (in the earthly realm) and came back down into it (in the earth realm). That is exactly what we need to do.

Chuck Pierce
The Passover Prophecies, 2020
Excerpt from the book pp.109-114

Discussion: Implementing Community-Based Models

Wednesday 8am EST we will host a round-table discussion via Zoom (email if you’d like to join) on the “how to’s” and testimonies of implementing local economy and banking in the context of the citywide/regional church/ministry unity (some use the terminology “ecclesia”). Including:

  • The role of regional elders
  • The role of discipleship in Christ, but also in the new way of business
  • Role of house of worship and prayer (Jesus at the center)
  • Local traditional banking credit union/cooperative bank (FDIC)
  • Local alternative banking (new payment/investment platforms)
  • Local currency (BerkShares in Western MA)
  • Local barter / sales / exchanges (criag’s list, FB marketplace)
  • Incubators / Start-up support (venture capital ideas)
  • Missional support local and remote
  • Community benevolence funds (helping the poor, widow, orphans)
  • Community “lending” as ways of helping people
  • Housing
  • Storehouses of resources
  • Supporting local businesses
  • Networking Christian businesses together (exchanges)
  • Role of “Apostolic HUBs” (“Righteousness Centers” or “ARKs” or “Holy Spirit Hotspots”)
  • Training and Equipping of the saints Eph 4

Looking forward to sharing testimony, exploring working models and future models.

We Need Your Feedback!

Since April, we have been gathering across the country on these Zoom calls to discuss the “New Breed of Business” revelation, repentance and reformation for the Body of Christ in the areas of economy, business, banking, investing and finance, and how that can impact our communities for good and win people to Christ.

We have been getting a lot of positive feedback and encouragement!

Two distinct purposes seem to have emerged:

  1. Education and Repentance
    Understanding what the socio-economic issues are today that are problematic in God’s sight (the theology behind the need of repentance) and the biblical solutions we have largely ignored or forgotten about. Simple things like keeping the Sabbath holy, not profiting nor charging interest on the poor, forgiving debts and resting the land (sabbatical). Since these matters are such a “blind spot” in the Church today, there is huge ground to make up in preaching and teaching this repentance and reformation message. Most Christians think our USA economy today is neutral (just infrastructure of markets and free trade) and not a problem in God’s sight. Yet, we are confused why these shakings keep shaking our economy.

For this reason, we have uploaded these discussions to the website and various podcast channels (see below). Please feel free to pass along these links to anyone who would benefit. Also, please invite anyone you think would benefit from joining the Zoom conversations.

  1. Networking Regional Implementation Teams
    Gathering together apostolic/prophetic leaders and teams across the nation who are already taking steps towards implementing these economic models and ideas. But we need shared wisdom and guidance to make good decisions in helping our communities.

One proposal on the table is that we would focus on Education, say week 1 and 3 each month and Implementation week 2 and 4. Or something similar.

In any event, write us back ( and let us know what you have liked and what you have disliked. And any suggestions you may have.


Spotify Podcast:
or search “New Breed of Business”


Apple Podcast:
or search “New Breed of Business”


YouTube Podcast:
or search “Gregg Healey podcast”


Google Podcasts:
or search “New Breed of Business”


Have we codified systemic greed into our corporate governance and business practices? And if we have, how can we repent of this sin as a nation without upending our economy? Even if we could change our ways, are we willing? What if the church could start a movement back toward a biblical economy outside of the banking system, Federal Reserve and financial markets?


We have codified greed into our publicly traded company’s business practices and corporate governance structures in the name of “profitability” and “shareholder’s interests”. Further, we have likewise codified much of the same greed in any private enterprise, which has taken in investor’s capital (in equity or debt form) that requires conforming to the same return characteristics on that capital, especially if the goal is to “go public” or be sold for gain. This is the nature of modern “private equity” and “venture capital” ideals and objectives.

The bible says: “Do not charge interest, nor profit from the poor. I am the Lord.” Lev 25; Prvb 28. Do our companies heed this command? Subprime lending cos? Cable TV cos? Cell phone cos?


A few weeks back in the Separation or Integration of Church and Business discussion, we proffered a new idea (see Thesis II), which we now turn into a proposal of a movement:

The most impactful engine for socio-economic improvement, social justice, serving the poor, building up neighborhoods, giving people access to good jobs and education is business itself. It’s not the government. It’s not even churches. We would argue, business done well under God literally creates healthy economy, creates jobs, creates a type of family, demonstrates the gospel with deeds not just words, creates opportunity, and glorifies God. As Christians come together and serve the community together through our businesses, joined together in unity, loving our neighbor as ourselves, I believe there is no greater force of good that can be unleashed on a nation, region, state or city. Lastly, I believe the only viable platform to achieve this properly are privately owned companies (not publicly traded ones), funded by capital that is not attached to the traditional financial markets, banking, venture or private equity systems and influences. All such capital all comes with “strings attached” and a return on capital expectation as the top priority, really the only priority if we are honest (and therefore becomes the object of worship).

In this way we can be a city shining on a hill – Matt 5:15